write about in the book is what we need to be fearful of is a coordinated attack that is bo cyber and physica so yo can imagine situation in the future where a cyber attack takes out the electricity of a city which makes it easier for terrorists to conduct a physical attack and that is what the real fear is. in terms of -- >> rose: and how real is the threat? >> >> the issue of the vick bring is the number one priority for the for the people who are looking at this, we are so dependent on the electric grid. >> and you saw inklings of what it can do even though it was not cyber after sandy. >> that is correct, many people arlookinto hden the vick grid, a similar project is around theanking syem because if the banking system were to clams. so the critical infrastructure as you know is being beefed up very, very strongly in many of the countries, including the united states, i think we are going to be beyond that as a threat reasonably soon. >> on cyber warfare the observation is the states will do things to each other in cyberspace they would never do in the physical domain and what we don't kn