they probably go into pillsbury blueberry cake mix. that was an early interview and this was is he interesting. this is a man much like many people i interviewed who were sort of bemused by these questions of the naive outsider who had this view that things have to be organic and close to nature. that's just ridiculous. >> and he also, as i understand, had difficulties he needed to overcome in his life with abandonment in his family. and again, this is a theme that runs through many american families, but it especially runs through the native american families that you portray? >> he had a horrible time -- well, his -- his mother essentially -- not exactly abandoned him but gave him to her parents to raise up quest - up. he was trying to find who his father was because his mother was an alcoholic and she didn't know who the father was. and so he did dna testing and he went to one man, and he said you know, you could be my dad. you were with my mom about when i was born. before i was born. and the guy said, well, yeah, sure i'll do the