are thoughtless and prefer it that way because it given gives them a chance to hold on to power, pir excepti perceptions. so i offer the possibility that treating each one differently, encounters that don't necessarily start off as force, could produce bigger results. it all depends on the guy you're talking to. the force thing i think just kind of puts you back in this exclusion area cycle. >> we haven't forced it them yet. we're just -- >> she just said force. >> no, i said i'm assume difference of that if we don't see a change, but what we've mandated is is that they must report on it.on't see a change, we've mandated is is that they must report on it. until that time, 67% of board positions were handed out to friends of the guys on the board. answer somehow you have to get change and that will be uncomfortab uncomfortable. >> i think that's the question. somehow you have to get change. when i hear force, i hear a kind of control that i wouldn't want. no matter who i was. white guy, black guy, white female. so there's other ways to produce the result. and the inquiry should be to finding