just a few years ago turkey was in the peace process with the pkk and you mentioned from the pkk point of view that with turkey and their point of view they have been unnerved over some years that syria along the turkish border will debut the rise of kurdish politics. has that affected has that affected the process with the pkk? >> absolutely. yes the whole arab spring came during just as turkey relaunched peace process with the upper echelon then you saw the kurds gaining ground with the assistance of the united states and that creeped out the government regardless of who was in power but this was difficult reaction whenever they see the kurds gaining influence across their border with the perceived help of the west that takes him straight back. it is a total panic so there was a special demand made by turkey frankly that was impossible for the pkk and ypg to accept for the regime change alongside the rebels. so turkey and the pkk that turns into 212 ypg so we did not see a single constitutional reform passed to instill any degree of competence to encourage them to think whatever they

of the pkk. the idea was the pkk was no longer going to be the vanguard of the movement, but each part of the region would have its own party that would operate to bring kurds democracy, autonomy, and gender freedom and of things , but they were part of the pkk nonetheless. what is an important distinction and what the u.s. focuses on is the fact in syria the pyd operates according to the specific conditions of syria. they have autonomy in their decision-making processes. they make their decisions on what is good at the moment. they trained people in syria. they are focused on syria. i do not think this nuance is not of great interest to turkey, but it is important when looking and ypg. at the same time, these operations have not encountered in the military way against turkey. there have not been attacks on turkey from syrian territory. they have not -- they have tried to keep the past few years their senior commanders in syria. so the problem is for the united states is that by denying any somet

the pkk has done that, but as far as ypg is concerned, that is not the case.rdogan is conflating these organizations and presenting them as one in order to provide a justification for his government intervention into syria. your opening statement appears to indicate that you would agree with erdogan, so would you say in fact ypg is a terrorist organization? i would say definitely the pkk and the ypg are one in the same organization. it does not make any sense to try to differentiate between them. you can work today at the pkk counter in syria and then you and itd to go to syria is the ypg. there are reliable statistics that more than 50% or about 50% of those fighting are from turkey. i think these points show very clearly that the ypg and the pkk are really one and the same organization. i would agree that the ypg has not targeted turkey or anything like this, but of course, since it is one organization that is a threat for turkey, now they have .n the border the ypg it should be quite simple to get those weapons over to turkey and to use them there, so and s

the us, pkk for turkey is an existential threat because pkk is a direct threat to turkey ‘s territorialbout what is happening in a sovereign nation, syria. you are trying to reshape northern syria. not only do the syrians say it is unacceptable... no, no, we have 900 kilometres of water with syria. what happened in syria is a concern for us because we are having to live with the consequences. 3.5 million syrian refugees, largely on the back of ethnic cleansing by pkk, turkey cannot sit on the fence. this operation is clearly raising tensions. looking at what is happening in northern syria, how long will it last? it will last as long will it last? it will last as long as we push all those terror groups out of the area. we are also trying to stabilise idlib area, one of the deescalation zone is. we want a unified, stable, syria because anything else is a security threat for us. very interesting phrase, working closely with russia. it seems to me that tibet that the government has made president erdogan has had three visits to moscow and talked about the deepening relationship with vladimi

has been able to separate the pkk from the ypg, the pkk is struggling to separate its ongoing dialogue with iran on a. like all towers in that region with tehran and the goals in russia with whatever demands or interest, that is one thing that the kurdish movement has always been good at, putting its own interest first to the extent and trying to stay focused on what its goals are. if the goals are to provide security and economy for kurds and others living in that region under its control, it will focus on it. will try not to be diverted by other issues and take whatever hit may come along because of that. >> it the perfect scenario for iranians because the regime allowed the ypg. [inaudible] recently they attacked a turkish convoy and libya. i think what they would like to do, it shows how complicated it may be an russia doesn't have that much leverage so they decided to deploy and sent a convoy. i thinkes what turkey is trying to d do is trying to prevent the regime to support the ypg. i think they would like to see a weekend t ypg and weekend. [inaudible] i think after it started,

say problems through more democracy, more fundamental rights and freedoms in return for terrorist, pkk, dropping arms. and there was in reconciliation process and it was going reasonably well. the power vacuum, lack of fupti functioning state in syria and part of iraq was that there was this fertile ground for the likes of terrorists organization like pkk which son eu and usa terror list to actually acquire more represents, more sophisticated ones, recruit more people and obviously become even a more formidable threat, national security threat for turkey. what puzzeles us is that u.s. hs opted to choosen to fight a terrorist organization which is dash. so that's where there's dialogue of deaths. we, you know, obviously would like to see, you know, a more move towards recognition of these concerns. so what turkey is saying is this. of course, daesh is a big threat to humanity, that's why turkey moved in syria, 2,000 square kilometers of daesh, but we have been experiencing significant terror attacks not only from daesh, but also from pkk. ethnically i'm a curd and -- kurd, i'm a departm

but we have been experiencing significant terror attacks, not only from [inaudible] but from pkk.ethnically, i am occurred and i come from a very humble background. my parents were illiterate farmers. the biggest kurdish city doesn't lie on iraq you are syrian border but the biggest is in stable. they are well integrated carving out a piece of territory from turkey cannot be a solution. that's what i was referring to and that it therefore i think the support which is clearly a subsidiary of pkk is a national security threat for us. ... that there will be a better understanding as we go forward and hopefully we can all work together to create a unified, unified, stable and hopefully prosperous series because it's now at our national interest, security interest. we have no interest in one single inch of syrian territory. we have no quarrel with kurtz or with anybody else here and we want to be a constructive player in the region to help as i sit at the beginning to prosper with our neighbors. >> is america today a source of equilibrium or disequilibrium in the middle east when you t

guerrillas kurdish are linked to pkk and we have to demolish them.is the understanding of the turkish government. but recently, this area is in the power of the kurdish guys. why did they start a war there? in 2019. all the polls show that before operation, before christmas, we all saw that the polls showed that his support was less than the last referendum. there is unhappiness in the but recently, this area is in country and he needs a nationalist victory to be like the emperor. aday, there was a kind of story in the turkish newspaper. if he cannot win the first round the thirde can open conflict on syria to win it. he can do anything to win that election. it is kind of like a race for him. will he be able to stay or not? bulent,e begin with you we have talked in this discussion about how dependent turkey is on germany. how dependent is germany on turkey? there are hoststages there. turkey is a a nato power. and the refugee problem. bulent: that is right. the poll that was published last week shows the fear in this country is getting bigger about .

interviewed a hardline pkk leader, a general, and published the interview.erviewed the general, including the bbc. but in 2017, turkey decided to arrest him and charged him with spreading terrorist propaganda. it kept him in jail for months without ever charging him. yesterday, the turkish prime minister met german chancellor angela merkel in berlin and indicated the position was about to change. said they thought he was being held on flimsy charges and his detention was political. andnd he has been released simultaneously indicted for spreading terrorist propaganda. if convicted, he could receive 18 years in jail. what could happen. courage of thehe judges taking his case. rightsnately, human organizations monitoring turkey do not think turkey has an independent judiciary anymore. he has taken steps under which he controls the appointment of all judges. go whether the judge will see the journalist's work as simply journalism or what the prosecutors ask the judge to see his work as, spreading propaganda for a terrorist group. anchor: thank you for that. in o

turkey views the kurdish population in south eastern turkey with great skepticism, and pkk is a terrorist group they view as an existential threat. the united states is really a nation, the great power that's in danger of losing in syria, our allies are being attacked. >> your allies are being attacked. as you said in danger of losing, not necessarily having a strategy out of it. i want to play you something that the national security adviser, general mcmaster said to the munich security conference about this issue over the weekend. >> what's particularly concerning is that this network of proxies is becoming more and more capable, as iran seeds more and more capable weapons, more and more destructive weapons into these networks. so that the time is now, we think, to act against iran. >> i mean, he says the right things, the time -- or at least what they think is the right thing, that the time is to act. but what action could the u.s. take? and we have iran potentially rubbing up against israel now in a military manner. >> well, actually, they've already rubbed up against them. one of the

got counter terrorism campaigns by the israelis against hezbollah in the south, the turks against the pkkus against isis in the east and finally you have got — and that's where you've got the clash between the us and the syrians — an effort by the us, turkey and israel, not well co—ordinated or spelt out the pressure of the russians to find an overall solution to this conflict that will end the bloodshed and push back iran which seems to be behind most of the really bad things that seem to happen. is there any hope for eastern ghouta? russia is saying a ceasefire is not practical. 400,000 people in the midst of all this. a doctor saying these are the worst four days eastern ghouta has ever gone through, never the level of bombardment we have seen in the past 96 hours. absolutely. let's be clear, the russians agreed with the turks for a ceasefire for a deconfliction zone in eastern ghouta and the russians are violating that. they are the primary source slaughtering civilians and vladimir putin is doing this in part for revenge for the pane shot down and many people will die for the death o

as they vent their anger, protestors carry pictures of abullah ocalan, he's the jailed leader of the pkk war inside turkey. the syrian kurds have been pushing for autonomy and turkey has grown increasingly nervous — invading northern syria was their response. a bbc arabic crew travelled through territory controlled by the syrian army, before arriving here. there was no attempt to stop them. despite its own misgivings about kurdish separatism, it seems damascus is even more incensed by turkey's actions. it has just announced it will send troops to help repel the invasion. as turkish warplanes attack border villages, civilians flee towards afrin. this dark cellar is all the shelter this woman could find for herself and her children. translation: on that day, there was bombing. the planes came over our village, it bombed the area. we were frightened and we left. my daughter was crying. we came here to this cave. you can see, it's dark and scary. the kurdish fighters are resisting the turkish advance. they have been putting out videos showing their attacks on turkish positions. translation:

as they vent their anger, protesters carry pictures of abullah ocalan, he's jail leader of the pkk, the which has waged a decades—long war inside turkey. the syrian kurds have been pushing for autonomy and turkey has grown increasingly nervous — invading northern syria was their response. a bbc arabic crew travelled through territory controlled by the syrian army, before arriving here. there was no attempt to stop them. despite its own misgivings about kurdish separatism, it seems damascus is even more incensed by turkey's actions. it has just announced it will send troops to help repel the invasion. as turkish warplanes attack border villages, civilians flee towards afrin. this dark cellar is all the shelter this woman could find for herself and her children. translation: on that day there was bombing. the planes came over our village, it bombed the area. we were frightened and we left. my daughter was crying. we came here to this cave. you can see, it is dark and scary. the kurdish fighters are resisting the turkish advance. they have been putting out videos showing their attacks on t

vent their angen turkish army as they vent their anger, carrying pictures of the jailed leader of the pkkrkey. they have been pushing for autonomy and turkey has become increasingly autonomous. invading northern syria was their response. bbc arabic went through the area patrolled by the army. there was no attempt to stop us. despite misgivings about kurdish separatist, it seems they have been more incensed by the actions of turkey. it has just been announced they will send troops to repel the invasion. as turkish warplanes attack border villages, syrians flee towards afrin. this dark cellar is all the shelter this woman could find for herself and her children. translation: on that day there was bombing. the planes came over our village. they bombed the area to pick we were frightened and we left. my pick we were frightened and we left. my daughter was crying. we came to this cave. you can see it is dark and scary. the kurdish fighters are resisting the turkish advance. they have been putting out videos showing their attacks on turkish positions. translation: so far, militarily, the turkis

they certainly have serious concerns of pkk terrorism. of course this has screwed some tension with some ofur the partners we have on the ground. the principal way we're addressing this congressman is by being as transparent and clear and candid with the turkey for some of things were doing on a day-to-day with our partners. just this morning i i had a conversation with my counterpart in turkey, sharing information back and forth, keeping the communication channels professional and open as we discussed this very, very difficult challenge that we are working through. >> and with a multitude of issues you have to face yemen, what's the latest on efforts to provide security working with saudi arabia? >> i would say our effort in the setting is principally to help them defend themselves, and i think we've made some very good progress in this area and i look forward in a closed session to sharing with you some examples. >> we appreciate your service. thank you. >> thank you. >> mr. veasey. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i wanted to ask you, there

they said they are the pkk, the same people who have been mounting attacks in turkey over many yearsn afrin have always had an ambiguous relationship with the damascus government certainly in recent years. in times they appeared to be in opposition to them but in general they seem to have some de facto agreements. now the damascus government is siding with them and trying to protect them from this turkish attack. does it look betterfor some kind of peace that these former enemies and can now sit down and talk? no, is the short answer because they always had this de facto corporative relationship. this particular area of the kurdish resistance. and you have the americans bordering on the area, the iranians and russians also involved. it is a dangerous situation in the north of syria. well going back to the issue of eastern ghouta. mark has been looking at how it is receiving such treatment. since sunday, there's been a sharp increase in syrian military attacks on ghouta — dozens of airstrikes a day have been hitting the besieged enclave, and the death toll is now approaching 200 in th

translation: if they regime is sent into the area to confront pkk there is no problem but that comescan stop the turkish army. this map shows the parts of syria held by the government — that is controlled by kurdish forces known as ypg. a huge swathe of territory, much of which borders turkey. since news of this imminent arrival of troops supporting the syrian government, the kurds have now reported an increase in shelling on their positions by the turks. the consequences are already kicking in. here is our reporter on why the syrian government has chosen to get involved. the syrian government offers to get involved two weeks before the turkish offensive started because one of their targets is to take back as much territory as they can from syria. this was under kurdish control for months. it is for the interest to enter afrin. it was for the kurds to understand maybe they have to ask for help. yesterday it was leaked, this agreement was leaked, by that kurdish forces. it's made headlines this morning in the region in all newspapers. later this afternoon and this evening, another spo

we have acknowledged that turkey has concerns along the border along with pkk interests. our concern is this activity is detracting from our efforts against isis. >> on a broader scope what actions are needed to prevent this mixture to secure the hard-fought gains against isis? >> i view russia's being at the heart of many of these issues. i'm being serious when i say they're both arsonists and firemen. fueling the trying to resolve conflicts in their favor. in trying to achieve their objectives. not necessarily the broader objectives of the international community. there has to be more accountability and pressure put on russia to do it they said they're going to do. >> to think that pressure can come from other powers on our nato allies in turkey? >> they can come from many sources. >> can you speak also to the need to interdict the isis and al qaeda migration into this a q, boko haram another see the smell that as they have been pushed out of one area they may drift over to another. >> were very cognizant of what they're doing with their partners on the ground very conc

let's not forget, the idea of a national state is nothing that the pkk is in favor of. when they talk about federalism, they do not mean federalism inside syria, to have an autonomous region. they mean federalism or can federalism, and they talk about all the kurds in the middle east spread out in different neighboring countries. nevertheless, this opportunity -- they saw the opportunity and they proved themselves. you see the emergent of another state or non-declared statement of kurdish autonomy is something useful or not is going to further destabilize the region, i think in an environment where states collapse and fail, every project of self administration , let's say,oject of efficient administration which provides security to its citizens and its people on the ground and somehow improve their conditions of living is already a big achievement, and therefore, i understand that for a moment, the u.s. not only for the lack of alternatives just said let's leave out the terrorism debate here. let's see who is performing on the ground. let's see who we can partner with f