it's not just plessy versus ferguson. it is not just separate but equal.hat's what he is saying it is for but you are talking about economic rights as well. why did he have access to knowledge of how the law would be experienced, the practical implications on the ground for the poor or for labor rights? what was it about his life that gave in this moral clarity? and what was it about the other dudes on the supreme court that lacked that? wicks he really did stand out for most of his tenure because of his background in kentucky. i think there are some things that bore on him really powerfully from that background. one was living in fear of the civil war. for the 1830s until the 1850s had this deep sense of foreboding the war was coming and they were going to be caugha in the middle. they were also divided statess themselves. people who cared about that state were horrified by the idea of division. and while harlan was a young politician trying to enact compromises and those compromises today people look and say the compromise would have continued slavery so

plessy versus ferguson was in the 1890s. there were many more hundreds of mutual aid associations that time and many of them supported the plessy versus ferguson case. he was the president of the economy society and was also a number of the citizens committee. they were involved in taking the plessy case to court. the economy raised money for it and the president is saying i know many of you are in support of the legislation against the jim crow law. it was so they were very much against the jim crow law and the plessy versus ferguson decision for those of you who don't know was a case that was taken to the united states supreme court to prevent separate butequal. they did not end . >> i wanted to ask one more question that and then maybe will end fairly soon but i want if you could talk for a minute about music. so many of us associate new orleans with music. the jazz in particular and you write about music in the book. can you talk a little bit about the economy and its relationship to music overtime. >> if you go to the ne

. >> host: how was "economy hall" related to plessy versus ferguson. >> guest: they were probably one the first, one of the mutual aid societies in the 1830s. there were many more, many of them supported the plessy versus ferguson case. the president of the economy society was a member of the citizens committee. who were involved in taking the plessy case to court. so the economy raised money for it and the president says it impressed but i know many of you are in support of the legislation against jim crow law. they were very much against the jim crow law in plessy versus ferguson, what you don't know is the case that was taken to the united states supreme court to prevent separate but equal. >> host: i wanted to ask one more question and maybe we will end fairly soon but i wondered if you could talk about music. so many of us associate new orleans with music, with jazz in particular and you write a lot about music. can you talk about the economy and its relationship to music over time? >> sure. if you go there you will see attend called the economy tend, based on this particular hal

. >> how was economy hall related to plessy versus ferguson? one of two black mutual aid societies plessy versus ferguson was in the 18 nineties with hundreds of mutual aid associations and then the president of the economy society but then to be involved in taking the plessy case to court. and we know that many of you are in support of the legislation. and with the jim crow law. and with the united states supreme court. >> and i went to ask one question and then to have fairly soon but so many associate new orleans with music with jazz in particular butri you write a lot about music in the book can you talk about the economy and its relationship to music over time? >> if you go because the economy has music all the way through. and then while it is driven out of jobs in one of the places they play music is economy hall that have a party. and then it goes to the poor people to the nuns. if you can't win then the was armstrong also went to economy hall. they are the first one outside of new orleans. >> did it have members that were enslaved as we

. >> how was economy haul related to plessy versus ferguson? > the members of the economy society were probably one of the first -- they were among the first maybe one of two black mutual aid societies started in the 1830s. plessy versus ferguson was in 1890. they were many more, hundreds of mutual aid associations by that time. many of them supported the case. the president of the economy society he was also a member of the citizens committee who were involved in taking the case to court. so the economy raised money for it and he says that i know many of you are in support of the legislation of the jim crow law. they were very much against the jim crow law. and the plessy versus ferguson for those who do not know was a case of a stake into united states supreme court to separate but equal. spent okay i want to ask omar question and then maybe we will end fairly soon. i just wondered if you could talk for a minute about music. so many of us associate new orleans with music, with jazz in particular. you write a lot about music in the book. can yo

so that's not some -- i also think when you get to plessy versus ferguson, it is entirely possible that the court could have ruled the other way. it would have infuriated the south, but the country was accustomed to having this period and the various points because of the lack of moral courage. >> about this period of time where we literally go backwards with rights in so many ways. we are use to learning about history as an arc towards justice and it's a fair time to go backwards and amazing to think where we would be today if we listened to him. so, i think we are out of time. there is someone who's going to come but i could talk to you about this all day. i hope everybody buys the book and they get a chance to attend another event like this today. thank you so much for the conversation, peter. >> thank you, peter and sarah for a truly amazing story and so much to take away. thank you all for being such a thoughtful audience. we highly encourage you to pick up the great dissenter. there is a link in the chat and we have some new questions that will shape the programs and we would love

i think when you get to plessy versus ferguson it is entirely possible you know, that the court could have ruled the other way. it would have infuriated them but the country was accustomed to having itself io be infuriated by things at various points . just thelack of moral courage . >> it's breathtaking as an african-american to read about this time when we literally go backwards with race. and in so many ways. where used the learning about history as an arcbending towards justice there are times we go backwards . and it's amazing to think about where we would be today if people had listened to him . so i think we're out of time and there is someone who's going to come and close us out but peter, i can talk to you k about this all day. i hope everybody buys the book and they get a chance to attend another event like this. thanks so much for the conversation, peter. >> thank you peter and sarah for such a fascinating hour a truly amazing story and so much take away this evening. thank you all for being such a thoughtful audience. we udhighly encourage you to take that attendance, hath

reconstruction backlash kkk, supreme court, that there was no rights blacks had they would suspect plessy versus fergusonblack clash all through the 20th century and backlash and then with the silver one —- civil rights era sit ins and mlk. backlash. and then the voting rights act don't forget 55 voting rights act and 58 housing but when all we talk about so now back to your question we get a black president, barack obama 2008 reelected in 2012. backlash. donald trump. i knew there would be a backlash after obama. that there is but you don't know because you never let your guard down. >> talk about the filibuster. king talked about doing the arraignment y and so what do you think about the filibuster. >> that's the basic and fundamental in the democracy as the right to vote and we watched it several times with 50000 people and then if we change it and then the democrats of these are not. they want to do it stalled a presidential nomination over supreme court justice for over one year and you know they were going around of the filibuster. >> you talked about in the book when karen is scott kings as doctor

i do think plessy versus ferguson was correctly decided. >> it was not part of the current pattern that people have raised concerns about. [inaudible] the pitch. >> guest: if riding in the 1920s i think many people at the court made up of seven conservative and maybe a third period that every appointee of the supreme court should have to learn your name in school not but that is such a great thing but we have to know with the court about every single room has been appointed by either or president truman. so the proper thing to do is the justices should be appointed by democrats. [laughter] i have no comment. only as to follow-ups you think the court will reverse itself in some way on the texas order? >> the texas order says specifically it expresses no view whatsoever on the constitutionality. the texas case is whether you should take basically with the decision of a lower court in the texas case would have an immunity. >> you were very concerned white was that? for wizened reasons that are obvious. i think they would like to know. >> this might discourage some from doing it. one of the

franklin roosevelt's threat to expand the court, the switch and time. 1965, 1954, both of plessy versus ferguson were part of the arguments in the case and the dissent was part of the actual argument in the case to overturn that in >> they can with so many different forms. nonetheless yes you can apply taking a principled stand in terms of how your actual views can become part of the law. >> we have got three more questions and only 12 more minutes. but they get through these and then i want to close out one of the major thoughts about today as we look forward. seaman will do a lightning round and not give a quick answer. >> if he is now fantastic reported "the new york times" and from kentucky not a northern state or southern state. how did this inform his worldview and legal thought whether a school of legal thought from a border state or was he. >> there was a school of thought from the border state and he frequently. tribute to transylvania university law school for putting that view forward. there were some. think they were problematic in that school of thought and they were the elite in ke

am a huge fan of my fellow kentuckian justice sean marshall harlan, the sole dissenter in plessy versus ferguson. i would venture that justice thomas jurisprudence displays the most color blind view of race in our constitution since harlan [applause] himself. he respects the 14th amendment enough to apply the way it is actually written. a prime example that takes courage to let straightforward things be actually straightforward. doing this work, doing the actual job of a judge is important and essential. our judiciary has enough to do without reaching outside the constitution without grabbing other powers. radical voices with an agenda push did not have much patient for this kind of restraint. today's left is not content to settle for the outcomes that honest interpretations can apply. so my friend, storm clouds are gathering on the horizon. the very concept of an independent and insulated judiciary is actually at stake. a year and a half ago, the democratic leader in the senate grabbed a microphone, on the supreme court steps, and threatened to justices by name. if they did not rule away that a

jennifer: how was "economy hall" related to plessy versus ferguson? fatima. the members of the "economy hall" were among the first two black mutual aid societies that threaded in the 1830s and plessy vs. ferguson in the 1890s and many more hundred of mutual aid associations at that time and many supported the plessy vs. ferguson case. [inaudible] was the president of the economy society, and he was also a member of the citizens committee, the plan who were -- the clan involved in taking the plessy case to court and economy really went for it and have in the minute that the president is saying i know -- he says it in french but i know many of you are in support of the legislation against jim crow law. they were very much against the jim crow law and plessy vs.r ferguson for those of you who don't know was a case that was taken to the united states supreme court to prevent separate butat equal. they did not win. jennifer: i wanted to ask one more question that i -- and then maybe we'll end fairly soon, but i just wondered if you could talk for a minute about mus

overruling plessy versus ferguson, the west coast hotel case overruling the lochner era decisions, those were, to a certain extent, jolts to the legal system, and the arguments against them had a lot to do the stability and predictability. the other arguments, intervening precedents had eroded the authority of those cases, that those precedents that were overruled had proved un-workable. that carry the day in those cases. >> one final citation from the joint opinion and roe, quote, after nearly 20 years of litigation and rose wake, we are satisfied that the immediate question is not the -- resolution of the issue, but the presidential force that must be accorded to its holding. do you think the court, the joint opinion is correct in elevating presidential force even above the specific holding of the case? >> that is the general approach when you're considering stare decisis. it's the notion that it's not enough that you might think that the precedent is flawed, that there are other considerations that entered into the calculus that have to be taken into account. the values of respect for

council, supreme court with decisions, no rights any blacks had they were bound to respect, plessy versus fergusonand all that. back lash all the way to the 20th century. back lash, the civil rights era where brown versus board of education, sit ins by students, martin luther king emerged, boycott,\where we see african and civil rights and voting rights act,\comes, don't forget, 64 civil rights act, 65 voting rights act, 68, housing asked then all of the sudden, police brutality and the backlash, richard nixon got elected in 68, 68, the end of the 60s. all we talk about civil rights ended with richard nixon so fast forward to ukraine. we have a black president, barack obama, 2008, reelected in 2012, backlash, donald trump. i knew there would be a backlash after obama got in. i didn't know it would be donald trump. anything other than presidential but there's always a back lash. you never let your guard down. >> king talked about doing away with, the question is what do you think of the filibuster, and the people, the senators? >> i'm against it totally but they could do what they did with the debt

paper was about how the equal protection argument of the constitution could prevail over plessy versus ferguson the separate but equal decision of the 19th century. her classmates laughed at her but she prevailed and wrote that thesis her professor spotters with robinson bet her $25 that that no $10 that it wouldn't be that plus he wouldn't be overturned for the next 25 years. in fact, it was overturned by thurgood marshall in the well-known brown decision, which he won in part by reading her thesis which spot is what brawson robinson brought him because he didn't realize he was really going for it. so, but she didn't address gender discrimination until years later. when she wrote a paper called jane crow. and that was the argument that ruth bader ginsburg used when she was still an attorney to argue to to write the brief that that one supreme court's decision. to declare sexual discrimination to be unconstitutional that was a huge breakthrough and it was because of polymerie and and ginsburg acknowledged that by putting her name on the brief. no her role as a figure in american legal history i