human nature, human possibilities, and the proper ordering of government so that everyone would plure iflourish. that you had in payne and that i think you have in the declaration of independence, you know, drawing on that. >> when you and i talked in 2000, you were an adviser to something called thomaspayne.com. >> i don't know that i was really an adviser, i guess i am an adviser, but they don't ask for my advice very much. >> are they still active? >> they are trying to get -- yes, they are active, and they are still working on a -- i think a television series. but they're still active. they write letters to the editor and whatnot. >> the reason i bring it up is because, you know, a number of years ago we did a feature on thomas payne's, one place, one shrine to him up in new rochelle, new york, this is not a criticism of them too much, it doesn't get a lot of support. >> no. >> you have been active in history for years, one of the few people that's run both the organization of american historian and the american historical association. i want to ask you about both of those organizations. bu