plutarch has written slides were he did a series of pairings of the greek and roman.omulus and theseus and whatnot, founders. we wanted to look across the spectrum of leaders in different fields, backgrounds, diversity. we wanted diversity of sex, diversity of nation, diversity of the field they were in. we came out with six genre. we came out with geniuses, albert einstein and leonard bornstein. we came out with founders, walt disney, coco chanel, you will be surprised, i didn't even know who coco chanel was when we started. [laughter] but i do now. we came up with powerbrokers, we keep up with boss tweed. margaret thatcher. reformers, we came up with martin luther, the protestant reformation. and then his namesake martin luther king jr. we came out with heroes. harriet tubman. in the chinese admiral john hot and then we had a standalone. the standalone was general robert e lee. we put robert e lee because of all the figures in my life and my youth he was the iconic leader. i went to washington lee high school i went to west point like robert e lee, i live about 70 f

so there is a model back there in the same way the founders went back to plutarch and cicero.i am going back to jefferson, madison, and my granddaughters said why not. jefferson, adams, madison and washington and historians aren't supposed to do this. to pose questions of the past, formed in the present. it is called presentist. that is a sin. everybody is doing it. i am joining them. >> i am very happy you did. it is always auspicious to have historians of this period in philadelphia, perhaps you particularly. thomas jefferson wrote the declaration of independence at 7 and market street. he and that document such a quantity to us and i keep going back to the same words i read this paradox and irony and i wouldn't think. >> if that is what comes to you, i am winning. >> the paradox of jefferson in the document can you elaborate on what confounds us so? is that the question? >> that is a biggie. >> on the second floor apartment, a desk built by a former slave in the middle weeks of june 17, '76 jefferson wrote the magic words of american history which began we hold these truths