i do not think we're giving away a poor ppogram. i think you make a mess, you tried to work with other people as they clean it up rather than point fingers about it. -- i do not think we're giving away a pork program. $30 million per year is real money, but not undoable. we have seen the ford foundation putting in 13 million already. all lot of private citizens are helping as well. host: for more information go to aspeninstitute.org. thank you for being here. we're going to take a short break. when we come back, we will open up the phone lines. we will be right back. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2010] >> this weekend on "book tv" kai bird. and on afterwards, vietnam veteran karl marlantes. buying the entire weekend schedule at booktv.org. join us on twitter. host: we are back with open phones this morning. we have 15 minutes. phone number as will be on your screen. above the gulf oil spill. this morning "the daily news"has the breakdown by numbers. 81% is

and do we need to be reworking any of our ppograms? >> that is an excellent question. we will be living for a long time with a lasting effect of this crisis. the damage was extraordinary. it reached car and brought across the country. if you are in the real-estate business, parts of the country that have been exceptionally high unemployment rate, if you run your business on access to credit that washed out, it is still an enormous the challenging environment. you are right to point out that small banks came into this crisis, much more conservatively managed and their wall street competitors, but many got into a position where they had an exceptionally, regrettably, and unacceptable high levels of exposure. they face difficult adjustment ahead. we have a set of programs stiil in place. that will last beyonn the expiration of tarp. my view is that the most effective thing which could do for the credit problem still facing small businesses and small banks is for congress to enact this set of credit programs for small businesses. the way these programs are designed, they d