therefore, they qualify for ppp. on may 28, i called out a letter to your agency along with chairwoman velasquez. -- by 166 members of congress. we asked you to administer the ppp program in a uniform manner, and specifically not to exclude any entity or non profit on the basis of political ideology. this letter came in response to numerous planned parenthood affiliates learning that they were under investigation for violation of the ppp rules. even though they were not. i'm deeply concerned about the motivations which would have -- prompted the investigations into the eligibility of planned parenthood affiliates, especially after several of them learned about these investigations, first from fox news rather than from the sba directly. administrator carranza, the over 500,000 health care that receive ppp loans, can you tell the committee how many investigations into violations affiliation rules have been conducted, and has the sba initiated such investigations against other non profit organizations for violation of a

i'm interested in ppp. i'm retired irs, so as far as the fraud end, i was wondering who would be chasing the money down at the backend, as far as the deceased taxpayers. i do think the irs will take that on. -- ppp, thethat money guaranteed to the businesses, who is going to owe that money when they default? some of these businesses will not be able to stay in business. so who is going to go after the backend? guest: that is an issue we will be watching in terms of the sba's actions and monitoring the funding that has been provided loanecisions on forgiveness. i think it goes back to the comments i made earlier in that there has been a a lot of confusion with the program, including eligibility, but also whether the loans would have to be paid back and under what circumstances. i think when you have that level of confusion, it goes to your point that it will make the back end of the program difficult. we made recommendations for them to develop a plan to identify and address those risks, to address the progr

they have been applying for ppp . they were rejected. in some instances, some of these hospitals have gone to courts, who have said the determinations made by the sba would have to be changed, or congress would have to act. i don't know if you think you need to have some kind of legislative action or you think you have the authority to look at this and make the change yourself, but i want to thank you for working with both my office but also senator kaine and senator collins from maine, and i am sure, other senators who represent similar hospitals in a similar situation are eager to work with you to help some of these hospitals. chair. velazquez: the gentleman's time has expired. now we recognize the gentleman from oklahoma. >> thank you, madam chair. ranking member chabot. mr. secretary, administrator, thank you for being here. these are unprecedented times. our office has dealt with many people who have waited weeks and weeks to get their unemployment checks approved, hundreds of thousands across the country. we discussed this on a pho

i think is the evidence of the fact that ppp butted helpful., at the same time, it's also evident that we are seeing resurgences in different parts of the country that are placing new restrictions, plus the existing restrictions for many of these businesses, it's hard to survive under. and then, of course, the consumer behavior is affected by the news of the pandemic, so it's very timely. in addition to ppp which is now more targeted, businesses under 300 with some of the parameters but the revenue demonstration is something that we've seen play out over the last few weeks. and that is that businesses, particularly in underserved and minority neighborhoods, on average there was a recent study that said 95% of them have had less than two weeks of cash on hand. so you can from that deduce how difficult it's going to be for many of them to survive, not to mention have access to regular capital markets in the future. so as part of this plan, in addition to ppp, there is a loan targeted at low income neighborhoods, census tracks that either are in a

hearing a lot now in small businesses as the ppp money runs out. they're beginning to look at new layoffs, i think is evidence of the fact that ppp was helpful. but at the same time it's also evidence that we're seeing resurgences in different parts of the country that are placing new restrictions plus existing restrictions for many of these businesses, it's hard to survive under and then of course the consumer behavior is affected by the news of the pandemic. so it's very timely. in addiction to ppp which is now more targeted as the businesses under 300 with some of the same parameters, but with business under 300 and the revenue demonstration, is something that we've seen play out over the last few weeks and that is that businesses, particularly in underserved and minority neighborhoods, on average, there was a recent study that said 95% of them had less than two weeks of cash on hand. so, you can, from that, deduce how difficult it's going to be for many of them to survive, not to mention have access to regular capital markets in the future. so,

than ppp loan. >> reporter: professor james wilcox says to appla ppp loan you would have been in business before the pandemic started. his companies were registered with the state in june. >> this is not a program that was designed for start ups. >> reporter: he says he would not be surprised if some companies are gaming the system because the application process was purposely designed to be simple so desperate small businesses can keep afloat and pay their employees, as a result, he says it is vulnerable. >> these documents require little documentation. it is easier to fill out the application for a ppp loan for an amount that might be $50 or $100 or even $500,000 or $1 million, easier than it is to get a personal credit card. >> reporter: michelle hears all kind of stories at her barbershop but this one hit home personally. >> it makes me think that there is something wrong with the system. >> reporter: she applied for a ppp loan to keep her barbershop afloat during the pandemic. she says she was turned down. >> it is devastating. i have four children, i have a mortgage, i have people t

we are looking at the data provided about ppp. as i mentioned earlier, this is a lesson learned we highlighted in terms of transparency and the need for a transparency mechanism. that is one of the roles gao plays with ongoing oversight. we have access to certain information. we have the audits ongoing. we have about 50 audits that span the government. we will be reporting out on those, so policymakers and of the public will have that information. there are other accountability programs and committees as well. >> we will take you live to the -- financialal services subcommittee. >> the subcommittee is now in order. without objection, the chair is authorized to declare recess from the subcommittee at any time. members of the full committee not on this subcommittee are authorized two-part is abated today's hearing. i remind you to keep your video function on at all times, even when not recognized by the chair. numbers are recognized -- recommended not -- to mute themselves after they are finished speaking. with the regulations , sta

the ppp program has $134 billion of available funding. let's focus on improving that program to help our small businesses over the next weeks to come, and let's fix the idle program in the right way. further, i would like to mention the role that state and local governments play. the state of arkansas used cares act funding to set up its own program for small businesses. the arkansas already for business grant program received over 2300 applicants within one hour and help over 200,000 arkansas employees across the state stay at work. 94% of those businesses had 50 employees or less, and a quarter were minority-owned and women-owned. i think we have the solutions here to help our small businesses -- items to our state and local government and let's fix the local program and ppp program so more small businesses can be helped as we continue to fight this terrible virus across our country. thank you for the time. i yield back the balance of my time. >> thank you. the chair today, i want to apologize again for the mismanagement of the time ear

specifically, the ppp program. so, as our local economies begin to slowly reopen and recover, can you walk us through what some small businesses will need in terms of long-term capital and the role that the small business administration or fbic program can play for providing that capital? >> thank you, madam chairwoman. i think amanda, the other witness, nailed it pretty well. a lot of businesses are up to their eyeballs in debt and they're really going to be looking for patient capital. but they need something that isn't going to cause the banks that are already fore bearens on their lone. they're going to need equity or equity-like capital. there are tools that exist in the platform, particularly the lmi that are patient where you can draw a loan but there's no payments for five years. that's a proven tool right now but it's limited in geography so a lot of places can't use it. opening up tools like that i think would be very helpful in the recovery of businesses. if you add more sbics being able to offer those,

a second y proposing ound of ppp loans for the hardest hit smallest businesses. just this morning, i was talking inn keeper in maine who at this time of year, usually his inn would be single night.very down by business is 93%. that t we're proposing is hard hit small businesses, those losses of 50% or ore, compared to last year, would be able to receive a loan to sustain their employees and to help cover overhead expenses. provision ortant llows ppp overhead expenses to be used for renovations that are with cdc to comply protective personal equipment, such as masks or renovations ther that may be needed to ensure the safety of both the employer's employees and customers. particularly helpful to restaurants, for under , that are still strict restrictions. there is also a long term loan component of the bill that senator roduced, and rubio is going to explain that here.he gets >> i don't think he's here yet. program has this been one of the most successful andisions of the cares act, i'm delighted that we're of it cing an extension today. you.k >> roy blunt. do muc

and i got a little bit of ppp, but i mean, i feel like giving ppp back because how am i supposed to pay that back? it's over two years, it puts a burden on me more than it's helping me. so, and look, i don't want to be complaining, i hear your question. what it did right was once i did get approved, my loan was delivered very quickly. that was right, but i'm sorry, they got so much wrong, i don't really-- at this point i'm so frustrated, what they got right is kind of irrelevant. >> thank you. any others? great. chair lady thank you so much. yield back the remainder of my ti time. >> the gentleman yields back and now we recognize the gentle lady from california for five minutes. >> you need to unmute. >> thank you. miss sexton, as a congress member representing los angeles county i thank you for sharing your experience as a los angeles business owner, and former professional. it's clear that it's been unacceptable at a time when small business need this relief more than ever. i also imagine that many of your clients are also self-employed individuals working in creative fields like the

we need to fix this ppp. i commend the billionaires that took the money and stoods up for their employees and took the abuse in the last couple of days i am not one of those people and i disappointed my people because those people got paid. i'm the bad person here. i should have taken the abuse and paid my employees by taking the p ppp it was designed for all restaurants and retail that's why they designed each one, not companies, 500 employees or less on an individual basis then the government caught some heat go ahead >> i think this is really interesting point. let me follow up on it when you hear the coverage of people say how can these billionaire owned companies take these loans. these guys are literally billionaires, why shouldn't they be the deep pocketed ones to pay for it what's your response this is the main reaction most people have when they hear about companies that took the money and owned by billionaires. they say shouldn't the people have the deep pockets to pay their workers. >> kelly, that'

lakers, they have returned ppp money because they didn't need it. they have access to millions. in fact, more than big name businesses decided to opt out of this cash. i talked to a small town barbara in hershey, pennsylvania, who told me he even didn't apply for the ppp program because he had his own savings and a use that

what ppp wastly looking for. whether you are a foundation or university or college, those are also not for profits, they wanted those jobs protected as well as what we think of as a manufacturing firm or company. it is for both nonprofits and or prophets. to make up foris the damage that telling people they can't fly places and do certain work does to a nonprofit or for profit. host: do you think your foundation will need additional aid? guest: i don't think so. it was badly hurt at first because they do conferences and so on. they were all canceled. that will not continue forever. i think that is fine. protecten able to both those jobs and keep people working, which is the point. you never know how other ways you could have done it. we have certainly been advocates , eliminating for six months or a year, the social security tax. that would drop the cost of hiring somebody for company or nonprofit by 15%. both hiring somebody becomes less expensive and they keep more of their earnings. it both makes coming back t

ppp doesn't have to be forgivable.y could just be government loans. >> well, those two things you need to do. you need to actually put some teeth into the audit process. put some innovation into the audit process. these are all problems we can solve with data. we can look at what's coming out. easily classify the industries. and you can do all of this pretty simply or just be honest to the american public and say, we really do want to subsidize everyone. let's find a more efficient way of doing that. i think the problem here is that you have an economic process that's being hijacked by a political process and, you know, at the end of the day, it's actually not getting the money to all of the small businesses that need it and this crisis isn't going away. we'll have multiple more rounds of this to get through it if we want unemployment to be where it needs to be. government needs to, one, get really smart and efficient about executing this and running audits in realtime. we can stop these loans in realtime from going ou

when the ppp eneven if it were to be extended is not a solution for us. and the restaurant industry is reliant on social gatherings. and that's why it's affected more than any other business, unlike airlines or retailers, independent restaurants do not have access to debt or capital markets. and the restaurant business 85% closed without intervention. that would be disastrous for our nation, roughly 500,000. 500,000 independent restaurants and the over 11 million employees that they employ. >> wouldn't you agree that something like live music or live theater or, really, almost everything live is in just as dire straits as your industry is? >> i'm not advocating against any other industry receiving money, but i do think that we have less access to capital. in particular, independent restaurants. >> and in the situation where you would be able to evolve the ppp loan to be able to be as it is currently if you use it a certain way, it is not a loan, it is a grant and there is forgiveness. why wouldn't we do the same and have tranches, have multiple-- as repre

they recommend sba develop a plan to respond to risks in ppp and address potential fraud. wilcox suspects that will be a tall order. >> these loans are really designed to be almost entirely forgiven and not paid back. millions and millions of these loans have been made. it will be a gigantic task for any government agency or anybody else to really sort out. >> reporter: after mr. tran hung up, we texted him to let him know he can call us anytime if he changed his mind and decided he wanted to talk to us. so far, that has not happened. >> the sba said you may report mismanagement, misconduct, waste or fraud involving the paycheck detection program. we have posted how-to's on kpix.com. >> since we are on the subject, the program runs out early next month. meanwhile, that $600 weekly employment list is set to expire on friday. the federal ban on evictions ended yesterday. now, time is running out on capitol hill for congress to do something about it. house democrats passed a bill two months ago to extend the jobless relief through january. but, republicans want to make sure t

what would ameliorate that obviously a vaccine, but i'm guessing maybe another round of ppp or something like that is there anything else you see that could forestall them having to make those further staff reductions >> unless there is another round of ppp coming out of washington, they're going to have to make these layoffs. i've owned a restaurant, and there is no way i could run a business at 75% capacity sometimes i lost money at 100% capacity so, you know, that is inherently the problem. folks do not want to take the risk of possibly contracting this virus, even though it is a very small risk. the problem is do you want to be the person that's in that category of folks that end up in the hospital most folks are not willing to take it. >> heck, no, most people would sa say. gentlemen, thank you both. >>> speaking of warren buffett, bertha hathaway making its first payment in more than toen years in a $10 billion deal. brian sullivan is on the ne news line. the fact that this is coming from berkshire, tell us everything that's on your mind >> hi, by the way, kelly this is a big deal

there was criticism of ppp it was the wrong people took it. the wrong terms were this.ept changing. the fed wanted to do this whole comment period to make sure that it did it the right way but again to your point there's a difference between taking your time and learning from mistakes and between acting as if you don't want any of this money to get out into the economy >> right these programs are not the same. there's a big element of forgiveness if you retain employees. main street is a lending program. it's not a forgiveness program the other major difference is that ppp was designed for really small businesses 500 employees or less to cover just core expenses like payroll. many businesses are over 500 or mid sized up to 15,000 they have lots of other expenses other than payroll those businesses could not use ppp to cover those expenses. that's why it was so necessary main street should have been rolled out really in parallel to ppp. >> i could still see people's point if they said it's perfect because just as ppp is rolling off, here comes main street. their targeted

but he clearly still needs help and would want another ppp loan if he were able to apply for one.. >> you wonder how much political appetite there is for people to go to the well >> i think there is an appetite. businesses are open it to. the higher priority is targeting both smaller businesses of under 10 or 20 employees and also minority owned business. that's been a big focus. many say the ppp didn't serve that cohort of business owners it is something that many people want to see a more targeted focus on in the next week of stimulus guys >> kate, thank you kate rogers. our next guest runs a family owned restaurant chain, dickie's barbecue pit they have 50 restaurants in florida, texas and arizona. dining rooms currently closed in california and arizona thanks to a surge in online ordering and ppp money, they're on the road to recovery. laura ray dickie is the ceo of dickie's barbecue pit. third generation business, right? >> that's right. >> super cool story. so you are now ceo of the family business at an incredibly difficult time i'm impressed with the numbers though your bu

i am not an expert on tpp. -- ppp. one thing i will point out, it is great attorney called worksharing. they have the option to apply for short-time compensation or worksharing which would spread the work longer cross the workforce and those workers would also get an unemployment insurance benefit and the additional pandemic unemployment compensation, which is currently $600 and hopefully will remain through the end of the year, until the public health crisis passes. host: finish your thought. guest: short-term compensation is an underutilized program from what everyone should know about it. host: we live from janet in cincinnati. caller: hello. i am a school bus driver and the first week i started drawing unemployment i did not receive $600 could i have been unemployed since march 16. i had unemployment last week, now it is $400. i don't know where they get that we were getting $600 a week. moreyself, and a couple of bus drivers were not receiving the full amount. ours has been reduced ever since we started doing unem

businesseshelp small that needed financing beyond ppp. sba's programced to get more flexible working capital to more business faster knowing that small businesses operate on razor thin margins, congress created the program to get cash into the hands of small businesses quickly to bridge the gap onto their -- until their bones are dispersed. -- until there loans are dispersed. this has been a lifeline for many entrepreneurs and job creators, injecting governance $670 billion into the economy -- injecting over $670 billion into the economy. we held numerous hearings with small businesses, lenders, and leading policy experts over the past few months. one of the top issues we heard from ppp stakeholders is the incomplete and ever-changing guidance. borrowers testified they had very little guidance regarding how to spend their loans so they could qualify for forgiveness. theers are still reporting process for seeking forgiveness is not clear and unworkable. if forgiveness is the centerpiece of this program, a streamlined efficient progress for

each received between $350,000 and $1 million in ppp loans. the companies are just as allusive. they provide cloud computing according to the state and investment services,h two liing there was no sign of activity at the address listed for all four businesses. this home in the affluent south bay suburb, where no one wanted to talk with us. we had no luck at other numerous properties and one tenant we to with talked with told us to get off the property. >> reporter: when we finally reached the man on a multiple self phone numbers he hung up. >> reporter: these companies are not licensed to do business here and it turns out there are more red flags. >> one of the rules of the ppp the professor james wilcox at the uc school of business said to apply for the loan you must have been in business by february 15th, before the pandemic started. the trans companies registered with the state in june. >> this program was not designed for startups. >> reporter: he would not be surprised if more companies were gaining it on the system, and the program was designed to keep small business afloa

that sort of organization was not open to the ppp program. it received no federal money, does not pay federal money. the foundation is like the heritage foundation or the brookings institute, which is a foundation that does research. the foundations and companies were open to -- they wanted to keep people employed. , but we did not have to lay anybody off, which is exactly what ppp was looking for. whether you are a foundation or a university or college, they wanted those jobs protected as well as what we think of as a manufacturing firm or company. for those -- for both nonprofits and for-profits. the goal there was to make up for the damage that telling people they cannot fly places and do certain work does to any nonprofit or for-profit. host: do you think your organization, the foundation, will need additional aid for those employees? guest: i do not think so. it was badly hurt at first because they do conferences and so on and they were all canceled. that will not continue forever, so i think that it is fine. be able to keep people worki

there's a discussion about ppp two program coming up.also seeing that, you know, the lending, the government has done a tremendous job in making the lending easier. most of that lending in this country is done by small banks. we feel there will be an up tick in small business with lending over few months time. i think the big overhang is around the ppp forgiveness piece because that's starting to kick in. a lot of businesses are extremely anxious to get the forgiveness amount. also launching a platform next week, a free platform because businesses are extremely worried right now. the demand is not coming back. they need more money. they also need more long-term money. i think the situation is pretty critical and especially with the second wave of virus coming in in states like texas and florida which have very large number of small businesses. they didn't expect it. they were not really ready for the shutdown and the lockdowns again. that's creating even more uncertainty. charles: nobody was ready -- >> nobody was ready. charles: nobody

in the ppp, we've worked with lots of different people to make sure that the cdf i guess there. but across-the-board w across td always be doing a better job. >> thank you. where i am now is dealing with minority businesses. and if i say we all agree we need to do a better job, do you see any ideas on specifically what we could doyo better? >> we would be happy to work with you on that. we've been working with a bunch of people to try to figure out how we could use cdfi and make sure they have more access to acapital. there's a lot of good ideas out there that we need to continue to explore before we have a one solution. i think this multiple solutions. >> i would just add that we are doing a great deal of outrage in the cdfi to get them access to the programs that we are doing including the ppp. and effectively we are meeting with the national bank king association tomorrow on july 1. we are doing a lot of outreach and we think that's having an oneffect. >> thank you. i do have a 35, 45 minute meeting [inaudible] i appreciate the detail as best as she could. i just was hoping t

>> that is right, thank you so much for having me, i think because we have had the ppp help over theth of time for whatever restaurant that maybe there has been an appearance that things are doing okay in the restaurant industry is bearing the storm and now for a lot of us the ppp money has dried up and i think now is when we need to support and we will see a lot of closure. jackie: what if you don't get that support, say there is not another round, do you buy the rest of your employees off permanently, do you close your business, how severe is your particular situation? >> we have two locations right now, as you mentioned we had to lay our employees off back in march, we were so helpful with the ppp loan and we rehired them thinking that this would all be over in eight weeks but as we seen it is not but in a lot of areas it is worse than ever, then we have gone back and relayed off the same group of employees which is devastating, in our case we had two locations with 16 employees each and we laid ten from each location. that is 20 people who were like family to us. so we cut the co

corporations, large restaurant groups all among the nearly 5 million american businesses they've got a ppp loan designed to help struggling small businesses how is it so many of the wealthiest the united states copies last congresswoman judy chu serves on the committee that oversees the small business administration she's calling for an audit of the ppp program and the sba she says too many cash, rich companies got loans that shouldn't have priority was supposed to be for the underserved communities and for them. stars to says it's possible negligence not corruption is at the heart of the problem she says most of the 5 million ppp loans that went out did go to small businesses that needed them i think we've put enough safeguards in the trial for the most part republican doug lamalfa says the program has generally been a success helping many businesses withstand the pandemic but he supports an audit of the businesses that got more than 2 million in loans. there's funny business called the city of them and certainly you know. >>people looking for that. i don't have to answer in a statement s

there is still 130 left in the ppp program.ch tells me we pretty much exhausted under existing rules demand for the money. we repurpose the 130 billion, add more, target exactly what you're talking about. the business that can dem strat, obviously dem stratrevenue loss, who still need a little bit after bridge to be alive at the end of this when the demand comes back because i believe it will. people love their restaurants. i love my restaurants. you can only do curbside so long. charles: yeah. we love, we love our restaurants. i got less than a minute, but i do have to ask, since you're from one of the bigger oil producing states, i'm reading a headline from "investor's business daily" yesterday, is the american shale boom over? i'm reading these over and over. fracking miracle. oil has come back, many stay it is too little too late. is it? >> remember this, the shale play is still in play. that regardless whatever is happening in the headlines the oil islways there. when that demand comes back i think the shale play will be j

i think the ppp program was phenomenally good.t affected about 85% of those working in small businesses. and you know, to qualify, you need 500 or less workers. and some of these let's say well-to-do operations qualified. >> i'm joined by congresswoman jennifer wexton virginia, and stephanie ruhle, msnbc anchor. stef, i have to go to you first. you've been follow thing and tweeting about it. i learned about it listening to you on lawrence o'donnell last night. this is gross. i know larry kudlow, we both know it. i used to be on his show. how is it possible that loans intended for small businesses in these struggling restaurants and bars that can't open, went to kanye and jared in this ? this is gross to me. >> it's gross, but it was legal. and we can't just say oh, it's the republicans that did this. if you want to say this famous rich person shouldn't have taken the money, you're right, kanye should. . neither should reese witherspoon, who owns a fashion label. they took up to $1 million. susie lee is a democratic congresswoman w

there is $124 billion in ppp funding still yaibl available. it's possible congress could extend the program. but that's not likely to happen until after the july 4th recess. >> now, at abc 7, we four wkey areas, education, economy, health, social and the changing workplace. a warning is sounded as more of us work from home, cyber criminals are exploiting the changing work place to steal sensitive data from networks. a new area of risks adds to the scope of the problem. you want to turn to abc news reporter david lew. he has been looking into it today. >> reporter: dan, ucf this week acknowledges it paid $1.1 million in ransom after part of its computer network has hacked. security experts say bad guys are exploiting remote workers. you might be feeling safe working from home. but you are at a huge risk for something else. >> what is actually happening is phishing and ransomware attacks are up 1,200%. right. so remote work, work from home exposes everyone. >> reporter: cyber criminals from around the world are exploiting unsecured home wifi net

guidelines. >> ppp program was for businesses that were already in business before covid-19. >> miriam explains the sba guarantees the loans but it is up to banks and lending institutions to process the lending applications and review a business's financials. three of the online lenders he used, fundbox, harvest and lendistry did not return my comments. >> obviously sba takes this seouy any fraud anvestiga tole >> the fbi has formed a ppp fraud working group with the small business administration and opened nearly 100 investigations with more than $42 million of potential fraud identified so far. >> the sba tells me tran was on their radar before our call occ occurred. >>> and we'll say on it. >>> the oakland a's hosted their season opener tonight four months late because of the pandemic. but still it was a sign of something familiar in this summer of quarantines, watch lists and social distancing. the a's hosted the angels at a deserted oakland coliseum. players wearing black lives matter jerseys during the pregame workout. the a's posted this picture. and second baseman tony kemp rai

i'm interested in ppp.ired irs, so as far as the fraud end, i was wondering who would be chasing the money down at the backend, as far as the deceased taxpayers. i do think the irs will take that on. -- ppp, thethat money guaranteed to the businesses, who is going to owe that money when they default? some of these businesses will not be able to stay in business. so who is going to go after the backend? guest: that is an issue we will be watching in terms of the sba's actions and monitoring the funding that has been provided loanecisions on forgiveness. i think it goes back to the comments i made earlier in that there has been a a lot of confusion with the program, including eligibility, but also whether the loans would have to be paid back and under what circumstances. i think when you have that level of confusion, it goes to your point that it will make the back end of the program difficult. we made recommendations for them to develop a plan to identify and address those risks, to address the program integ

there's been, for some people, a sense of controversy around c3.ai taking a ppp loan.et funds from the program and what was the thinking behind it >> i think if we think back to february and march, there was a massive economic dislocation i think we saw a massive contraction of gdp, massive contraction in equity markets. i think that many companies who were, would have been their initial reaction would have been to cut staff and to cut staff very significantly i think the ppp program was put together and i think it was a pretty good idea to encourage companies to avoid layoffs at c3, we have not done employ more people today. we continue to hire people and the ppp program had an influenc on that as it had on many companies in avoiding layoffs and not encouraging to retain the personnel. that was the purpose of the program. that was the motivation of companies that took advantage of the program. programs that were able to get funds and if you got more people than you did before, that suggests to me demand will be good moving forward. what kind of clients are you seeing

but i think for restaurants, part of the ppp is getting employees back on the payroll. that is very hard for an 18 month problem or we have employees come on and i don't want to put employees back on my payroll and take them off again bread rather slowly build up to a time or we can get fully up and writing. so will appreciate that i really don't put you on the spot but just trying to noodle over what the opportunities are. in the 39 seconds i have just any other panels have anything to add or offer to that question? >> i would add something. you are right restaurants are taking a hit in the chin they are a massive employer. there are other businesses that are put together staging or lighting have really taken it on the chin. so tailoring ppp now that we have time to be thoughtful and deliberate on how to structure these things, makes some sense i know nothing about the restaurant act but we can be deliberate on how we defined it but weak they can use it for, make it a deductible expense or permanent expense under ppp to make your business safe. there are lots of things

extension to is an the ppp?usinesses can still only access some money and still keep at least 60% of the workforce on? holly: most small business owners, when we survey our around 300,000 small , almost 80% have received a loan. it is those that are the smallest of small businesses, self-employed, and a lot of those people do not know they are eligible. extending this program to say another few weeks for applications would be a huge benefit in reaching those small business owners that may not know they are eligible. vonnie: who is eligible? for all the people out there wondering if they are were given up, because this is been closed for three months. what are they getting wrong? what are they missing? who is eligible that is not applying? holly: mostly those who are employers have received a ppp loan. that was the main target. support payroll, keep employees connected to their jobs, and help employers support that effort to keep those workforces intact. however, the eligibility for the program extends to those w

. >> the ppp program is meant to keep employees on payroll while businesses are impacted by covid-19. >> reporter: so it's our tax dollars? >> ppp is our tax dollars. >> reporter: so much money went out the door so quickly that provided an opportunity for possible fraud. some abc 7 viewers checked the list of businesses who received ppp loans and contacted me with questions about an applicant from the south bay who used 88 in his company names. 88 cloud computing, 88 enterprise services, 88 investment empire, 88 venture capital. the owner claimed to have 48 employees and he received between $350,000 and a million for each of those businesses. i ran the name and they all come back to 38-year-old tran. i reached him by telephone and he told me his businesses are real. he insisted he has 48 employees, but when i asked to see his operation he hung up. i ran the address he lilsed as the headquarters for those businesses and turns out it's his mother house in campbell. i stopped by several times and never found anyone home and i repeatedly called and texted him. i also wept to the home he o

guidelines. >> ppp program was for businesses that were already in business before covid-19. >> miriam explains the sba guarantees the loans but it is up to banks and lending institutions to process the lending applications and review a business's financials. three of the online lenders he used, fundbox, harvest and lendistry did not return my comments. >> obviously sba takes this seriously and any type of fraud or abuse will be investigated and will not be tolerated. >> the fbi has formed a ppp fraud working group with the small business administration and opened nearly 100 investigations with more than $42 million of potential fraud identified so far. >> the sba tells me tran was on their radar before our call occ occurred. >>> and we'll say on it. >>> the oakland a's hosted their season opener tonight four months late because of the pandemic. but still it was a sign of something familiar in this summer of quarantines, watch lists and social distancing. the a's hosted the angels at a deserted oakland coliseum. players wearing black lives matter jerseys during the pregame workout. the

>> guest: the ppp program, it was more than that. to date, the government has, through the banks, the banks have provided 4.6 million loans totaling about $512 billion. i think that graphic you are highlighting is a good one. it shows again that trade-off being made when you stand up a program very quickly. again, the goal was to help get the money quickly out to the businesses to help shore up their finances during the economic downturn. but there's a trade-off, and so as the graphic illustrates, the guidance that they were providing to the lenders and borrowers were evolving as they were in permitting the program, as they were learning more about the program and adjusting rules based on the questions that were being asked. as a result you see this in the graph and evolving set of guidance over the past couple of months which has led to confusion among lenders and borrowers in terms of eligibility and loan forgivenes forgiveness. >> host: we have calls waiting for nicole clowers to talk about the oversight of this spending. tom is j

we had already done the ppp for small businesses and that was alone to grant program.other words you can get your loan forgiven. on the main street program, that is purely a loan program, most businesses that i talk with at the outset of the crisis immediately went to the banks to try to get a loan and get as much liquidity as they could. and for those who could they did. the issue with the main street program is because it's taxpayer money in a loan program, their credit conditions, multiples of ebuddy, other credit conditions that have to be met if you're going to be eligible for the loan and for a bank to make that loan. so the intersection of those who have not already got loans from the banks and still need one versus the credit quality being good enough that they need the test of the program and the banks are willing to make the loan, the intersection of that is probably somewhat smaller than what people would like to see and in order to expand the intersection would have to mean the program would take more credit risk and be willing to absorb more losses. that i

on the committee that oversees the small business administration she's calling for an audit of the ppp program and the sba she says too many cash, rich companies got loans that shouldn't have priority was supposed to be for the underserved communities and for them. stars to says it's possible negligence not corruption is at the heart of the problem she says most of the 5 million ppp loans that went out did go to small businesses that needed them i think we've put enough safeguards in the trump for the most part republican doug lamalfa says the program has generally been a success helping many businesses withstand the pandemic but he supports an audit of the businesses that got more than 2 million in loans. there's funny business called the city of them and certainly you know. >>people looking for that. i don't have to answer in a statement sba administrator jovi tucker on so-called the ppp a quote indispensable success that put funding into the hands of those who faced enormous obstacles as a result of the pandemic in washington, i'm joe khaleel. >>coming up next on the kron 00:04am mo

the changes we did, we passed a bill two weeks ago to extend the ppp deadline. gett is bipartisan, we can it done, and that is what it has to be as we look at this dilemma that is facing our nation that we never had before. ist: just a final question, know you encourage people to wear masks. i am seeing leader mcconnell go out and he is wearing a mask over time. he is telling his constituents to wear a mask and doing it by example. but we have seen a time wear masks have become controversial. this whole topic has become controversial. you have constituents on all sides of this. how do you get the sides to trust each other when it comes to basic look health infrastructure and public health guidelines? rep. upton: i would encourage folks to wear a mask. this there report morning that without masks we will have 200,000 americans dead by election day. that is not acceptable. there has not been a time i have been inside the capital or a building where i don't have a mask on. i am home now, so i don't have a mask on. i believe in social distancing. those are reasonabl

also the ppp didn't discuss the cash to keep the airlines of float?>> i don't have an answer to the second. one the first is that we've already appropriated a lot of money. we're not gonna federalize at the election system. it's conducted in every state in very different ways. we've provided plenty of financial assistance but we're not going to tell them how to conduct their elections during the pandemic, or in my view in the future either. that's why there is not additional money in their for election assistance. i don't have the answer to your second question. i'll take one more if there is one. >> there's 1.7 five billion for the construction, is it possible if we've two billion that we can manage it effectively? >> we have to have an agreement with the administration in order to get started. they will have to answer the question on why they insisted on that provision. you will have to ask them why they insisted that be included. okay. thank you. >> we are going to listen to a little bit of alan brown's oral argument. we're going to have our guests