this mistake, access that information, this really the hill that we want to create a huge new precedental louing, to allow law enforcement to build weaknesses and backdoors into devices? i think it is not. i think this discussion should go to congress and continue on past this court proceeding. >> despite those issues that you raiseed, people came out on monday -- pew came out on monday, one poll, some polling may have different polling with different numbers, in this poll, 51% side with the fbi. 38% side with apple. is apple losing this -- this is very public fight. are they losing this in the public court of opinion? >> guest: i don't think they are, perhaps i'm a sunny optimist. the fact we're talking about a high-profile terrorism investigation and the fact that 40% of people on fairly esoteric issue understand that like, their privacy is so at stake and their phones are so sensitive they're willing to say even in this most extreme of circumstances, high-profile shooting, we still don't want to see that phone accessed, i think that's big deal. >> guest: i would contrast that to i think that