vice-president hon-- vice presit hwang: aye. commissioner hillis: aye. commissioner hurtado: aye. is there a motion to request? commissioner hillis: i will motion to grant the permit. president garcia: how would you describe the different between as granting jurisdiction and not granting jurisdiction, and they would still have the opportunity to lay the file. which is simpler for the department and which is simpler for the requestor? or is there a difference at all? director goldstein: i think there's a difference a few grant jurisdiction over this expired permit, and an appeal is expired, it does not touch the new permit that would be filed. they would have to file an appeal separately on that new permit. commissioner hillis: which they would have to do if we denied jurisdiction request, right? but if the permits expired, i do not understand why even if we approved jurisdictional request today we would ever hear of this again if there is no valid permit. president garcia: what might create more confusion, too, to grant jurisdiction unexpired permits that would to be allowed the p