a friend of qaddafi, helped save qaddafi in the old days. disagree with hillary clinton over libya back in 2011 but berlusconi has a lot of inside stories to tell. when i was able to supplement the biography with interviews with mister putin himself. i went to the kremlin, i saw vladimir putin, he was very kind. he loved talking about his friend berlusconi. americans have a hard time understanding this italian billionaire prime minister because he has such a concentration of power and is so controversial andso many sex scandals that it's hard to imagine the american equivalent . >> was berlusconi indicative of their politics? >> i would say berlusconi is the most controversial politician in europe in the last 50 years. there are honest and good politicians in italy. it's not all like berlusconi. berlusconi is typical of no one. he's unique. this is a guy who could look at barack obama and go on national televisionand say , obama, he is young, he's handsome and he has a year round tag and when i sent you berlusconi that's racist he says no, i

would libya be in better shape today if qaddafi were still in power? >> let me say this. secretary clinton and i have very strong differences on important follow. i helped lead the opposition to this disastrous war in iraq. she supported it. to answer your question, no one can speculate, nobody knows. but i think in terms of regime change, whether it's qaddafi, these are terrible dictators, but you have to be thinking about what happens the day after, the kind of political vacuum that occurs in libya, of course, as a result of the overthrow of qaddafi, isis now has a strong foothold. i would have done it differently if i were president of the united states. >> what would you have done? >> i would have worked more patiently. i know it's a difficult situation but you can't just go forward with regime change. you have to be thinking about the day after. and i think the same thing is true in syria. secretary clinton disagrees with president obama and myself regarding a no-fly zone. i fear that can get us entangled more into that war. i certainly hope the cease-fire they have

the army was virtually nonexistent under qaddafi.l problem was not the decision to intervene which was not obama himself but was the arab league and the europeans as well but the follow-up. there was that crucial first year were think the international community in the west was so focused on helping libya with elections that they neglected the security situation. they neglected the buildup of the militias and building a strong army and police. the spinal cord that you really need to ensure a successful democracy was neglected. me fromes to acknowledgments from the united nations and other diplomats. that is the real problem. we are where we are now. is buildingllenge viable institutions. a government and police and democratic rule of law. these of the things that are going to ensure that extremism doesn't come back. the islamic state cannot be defeated through bombs alone. charlie: obviously the president understands that. defending what he is done in syria. at the same time, he's concerned about isis. territory as a recruiting tool

but i think in terms of regime change, whether it's qaddafi, whether it's an assad in syria, these are terrible dictators, but you have to be thinking about what happens the day after, the kind of political vacuum that occurs in libya, of course, as a result of the overthrow of qaddafi, isis now i would have done it differently if i were president of the united states. >> what would you have done? patiently. i know it's a difficult situation but you can't just go forward with regime change. the day after. and i think the same thing is true in syria. secretary clinton disagrees with president obama and myself regarding a no-fly zone. i fear that can get us entangled more into that war. i certainly hope the cease-fire by secretary kerry. but i think her approach to foreign policy and mine are just quite different. >> earlier this week, as the back and forth on the crime bill had gone, said you supported the house version of the crime bill because it had an assault weapons ban in it. but that turned out not to be the case. why did you put out a statement that was misleading on that front?

>> andrea: because he was forenation-building of ousting muammar qaddafi that is the achilles heal ofush do it and he democrats do it. he can't make a compelling case of ouster is of gadhafi because he was behind it. sandra: there is one big fundamental difference between the operations isis has going on in libya versus syria. they're not controlling oil fields that would generate revenue for them and strengthen them. big differences right? we do know that they are trying to acquire some and -- >> san bernardino was tied to isis, right, by way of saudi arabia, pakistan. what happens if we get terrorist hit that happens in the u.s., that is tied to libya? wow. you own that thing. harris: don't want to i can nor the news. there is talk russia on board with cease-fire inside of syria. you have another nesting ground for isis. raqqa is the strong hold. will be interesting to see what kind of deal-making? >> from the u.n.? harris: yeah. >> last friday afternoon, midtown restaurant, in walk security, and there was ban ki-moon. two minutes later in walked security, power from the u.n. and we

another area has metastasized, especially with the vacuum that was created after the disposal .f qaddafi what we saw a recently was the u.s. air force being forces and winning a key victory. is that the model that needs to be further refined, to use more air power to back ground forces to minimize the impact in some of these places? >> airpower is an effective means, but just one of the military means at our disposal. again, i think our approach to libya and the whole of africa should be on a more holistic basis. nato has the ability to deliver a whole raft of different types of military capability, from combat power and combat operations through capacity building and training, through to the amelioration of human need. types of all capability. i think we need to look at that range of capability and see where they fit in the vastly complicated are that is and surrounds libya. we can not just push at one particular point. we have to consider how we deal the thing in the round. vago: do you think there has to be better integration between the other arms of power and not be as purely focuse

. >> dozens of militias fighting for control since the overthrow of muammar qaddafi in 2011. libya has had two competing governments. one in tibruk and another based in the ta capital of tripoli. general haftar has been leading military operations in tibruk. unity talks led to a presidential council being formed last month. last wreak they formed an unity government that still has to be endorsed by both sides. as the talks continue, so does the fighting hafta forces have taken control about 150 kilometers south of ben good di benghazi, but isil continues to be a major threat. not only. >> a moment here on al jazeera, protests in macedonia where. afghan refugees are stranded. >> here we have found 30 people have sold theirs kidneys in the kidney syndicate. social change. >> i feel like i'm suppose to do something, >> breaking down barriers. >> sometimes i have to speak when other people say be quiet. >> shaping our future. >> i actually am committed to a different, better, stronger, healthier america. >> i lived that character. >> we will be able to see change. >> the only liv

experience in the middle east, after the removal of saddam hussein in --q, after the rim of the removal of qaddafi in libya, is there something to be said for an idea that even a dictator is better than a failing state? kristin: there is a big difference between iraq and afghanistan and libya and syria. in iraq, there was a u.s. president going to war, bringing more into the country by a regime change from outside. this backfired, it did not make sense. obama came into power with the claim he would not start anymore adventures in the middle east. he was rifle. the problem in syria is it is not about starting a war, it is helping to end a war that was imposed by the very president of this country. is about the protection of civilians. it is about the responsibility to protect, which is an international law, to some extent. this is really the big misconception.if we look at the middle east , and say the west is starting wars and regime change, if the west had wanted regime change, they would have had a lot of possible moments, especially the chemical attacks in summer of 2013. there is no appetite i

there are refugees and they -- there is control of semi-major cities where qaddafi was from. they are command and -- commanded and controlled to some degree by syria. not controlled by syria. the group in libya is part of the larger mother organization. katty: let's talk about your book "the united states of jihad." hig more created a database of than 300 cases since 9/11, people who are convicted or accused of some jihadist crime. some art to real and some are quite serious but the fact that there are 300 cases and that in 2015 the fbi says there have been more cases that they have pursued that it -- then it any time since 9/11, it is like what we saw in paris. we are seeing some americans go to syria. they go over there. it is a one-way ticket. i do not think they are particularly organized. it is an interesting question. thee was a failed attack on prophet mohammed cartoon contest. they were in direct message context over twitter with members of isis in syria. that is a little bit different from what we normally think of as people who are inspired. they are taking directio

. -- qaddafi in libya. a system had been locked in place with big men.se systems ran the government , ran these societies and they were deeply flawed people were under educated. theoriesed conspiracy and a lot of ignorance, ethnic and religious hatred under the surface but it was contained by these regimes. we will take care of the politics. richard: you surrender your right to complain, and we will take care of you. they were paternalistic. and they infantilized people which the people grew to present. the image i keep returning to his of old rowhouses. you think of these old rowhouses. they are beautiful to look at. they are rotten on the inside. rot, which ishe good. but by not opening the doors and , and having no democratic challenge they get worse and worse. this is where it begins. this point where you have this system of these rowhouses. charlie: where are we in time? 1967 until 2003. that. that i arrived in trying to be a journalist. i lived it. houses you, these could put your finger through the wall. that is how fragile they were. he slammed a

been in turmoil with dozens of militias, each fighting for control since the overthrow of muammar qaddafi i in 2011. each have their own militia and foreign backers. general haftar have been leading forces backing the government in tibruk. the situation has been made worse by isil stepping in to an already crowded battlefield. talks led by a presidential council being formed last month, last year they formed an unity government that still has to be endorsed by both sides. as the talks continue, so does the fighting. haftar forces have made gains in parts of been gas did i and eastern libya. there is support under the control of the libyan national army. it had been used to ship weapons to isil fighters. haftar forces have taken control of the area south of bengahzi. not just to end the suffering of the libyan people, but to prevent isil fight freers gaining any more ground. al jazeera. >> still ahead on the al jazeera news hour, macedonia stop thousands from crossing the greek border. we'll be live with the latest. >>> we'll hear from lewis hamilton as pre-season testing begins. >> these

that's really been the unraveling of libya in the last five years since the fall of muammar qaddafi. there have been factions on the ground, tribes, fighting over the resources, political and otherwise. the u.n. has been brokering a deal in the last 15 months that should have culminated in the last few weeks. we're waiting for a vote in the east of the country to finally install the government, but there are many questions that rest on that. whether or not they'll install the government, as in tripoli as we're seeing in the last few moments, they're not akin to the agreement, they're not part to the agreement, so there are many obstacles. >> what is the daily reality like then for people across libya? the pictures that we often see here and that we show show a country on its knees. but other parts of the country, they're functioning. >> therthere, there are parts of the country that are functioning but it's the imminent reality that is facing libya that is concerning. we have minus 60 gdp because of the unfortunate oil situation and also because of the oil production and the share le

and in libya, an elected government was elected after qaddafi was opposed. as a result of that, the militants, the militants, the ones that he wanted us to help them with, burned down our consulate. forced to retreat the united states out of libya. we have to learn all the lessons in going forward. >> a lot of lessons to learn and a lot of challenges facing the next commander in chief. we didn't get a chance to reforming the pentagon which you know is important in addition to rebuilding the military. we have to leave it right there. general jack keane, thank you very much for your expertise this morning. >> you got it pete. >> good to see you, sir. thank you, sir. ted cruz and marco rubio not holding back on attacks to donald trump. donald trump. frontrunner is here live to respond when we come back. that's why i only choose nicorette mini. i tried depend last weekend. it really made the difference between a morning around the house and getting a little exercise. only depend underwear has new confidence core technology for fast absorption and the smooth, com

qaddafi in libya. all of the royal families. these system had been locked in place with big men. systems ran the government, ran these societies and they were deeply flawed . they were corrupt. people were under educated. deep-rooted conspiracy theories and a lot of ignorance, ethnic and religious hatred under the surface but it was contained by these regimes. and that was the system. charlie: a system that said to the populace we will take care of the politics. richard: you surrender your right to complain, and we will take care of you. they were paternalistic in nature. and they infantilized people which the people grew to present. the image i keep returning to his of old rowhouses. you think of these old rowhouses along coastlines. they are beautiful to look at. they are rotten on the inside. they contain the rot, which is good. so it does not infect the other houses. but by not opening the doors and not cleaning up, and having no democratic challenge they get worse and worse. and the rot spreads. this is where it begins. this point where you have this system of these rowhouse

. >> as awful as assad is, we saw that there was such a void when human bark left and when qaddafi left we run into a situation where if we do get rid of assad we have suddenly created an he egypt-libya situation? >> that's the lesson learned of both iraq and certainly egypt and most particularly libya when youxf achieve the military victory and don't have the political solution behind it, you have chaos. and now isis apparently has up to a thousand jihadists in libya. it's the largest branch of isis you have total chaos and dysfunctional libya. in syria, that would require assad's demise that you have to leave. it would be with pressure from the international community but from a position of strength. right now, john kerry is negotiating to try to get to the peace talks in the interim the assad regime supported by hezbollah, iran and russia is pushing the-our support outside of aleppo and people are dying and there is more refugees going and we are striving to create talks. we need to deal with this from a position of strength. and do you that with a military strategy first and foremos

. >> it libya was a worse mess when qaddafi was running the place and qaddafi was about to commit genocide go ba ee's go to bob a cokie. >> some of these past policies have not been great. i think a lot of it with hillary clinton has to do with style and delivery, oddly enough. >> right. >> she shouts. there's something unrelaxed about the way she is communicating and i think that just jumps off -- >> it's interesting you said that. last night i was watching her and i said to myself has nobody told her -- wait, kristen has interesting information. >> that the microphone works? because she always keeps it up here. the genius of reagan was, cokie, reagan kept it down low. if he -- he knew how -- >> these are rallies and it's hard to do that at a rally. >> her message is fighting for us and when she's loud and feisty it's trying to support this narrative she's fighting for us. i think to the point about her delivery and presentation, another piece of this is trust. and the fact she's changed positions on the things you mentioned is why -- >> thank you, i'm writing this down right now. >> youn

up, please, does that have a requirement in place after coalition forces essentially drove moammar qaddafi from power and left the entire country lawless and open to the spread of terrorism? secretary carter: well, the situation now is one in which the country is divided and there are a number of different parties to aspire to being part of the government. notand by the way, we are the only ones, are trying to get them to reach a government of national accord. that would restore in libya a give thegovernment and people what they sorely need, which is an end to the violence, libyan against libyan. at that point i am certain they will want help and the international community will help turn against isil. tony? reporter: want to be clear -- gen. dunford: jim, my french counterpart -- it is less about the specific lessons learned in libya then it is broadly this, and my french counterparts is look, it is one thing to win the war. you have got to win the peace. if you look at the last decade-plus, ensuring there is a political transition which leads to enduring peace and stability, is critical,

words you used, there will be no peace until we get rid of fact, that is why we have to help the non-qaddafi forces and now we have testimony that isis is on the verge of taking over libya. let me note that i did not see a threat toad as ever a the united states. >> he gave sustenance to hezbollah and other terrorist groups for years. >> he was never a threat to the united states. republicans made a mistake, we backed our president when he said we have to get rid of saddam hussein. it looks to me that all of this chaos and confusion that you are describing today that is unfortunately in your lap started when we made a mistake and got rid of saddam hussein because he is a bad guy and committing atrocities against his own people and that is destabilizing the whole region, that led to many thousands more people being killed. i would think, frankly, from a distance, it looks like assad is in that same type -- fighting him is the same type of situation. fighters are foreigners? meaning from other areas -- other than syria and iraq. total number of foreign fighters are above 30,000, but many of th

the basic theory of the book, the status quo then, qaddafi, that up ended.roying the old status quo through the actions of both administrations, the bush and the obama administration. and all the things that have been pent up and the antecedental problems unleashed and living with the consequences. the u.s. didn't create the sunni conflict and didn't create the arab kurd or the much, much older conflicts, but we did have a responsibility in unleashing some of them. >> and then military-led leaders, egypt starting the way. and then it's a terrible choice and then people in the region are going to say, well, there was isis or there was a straw man. one would hope to encourage, and then and then the chaos. and then the junkie and then get some sort of a false high from going into dangerous places. and then i at least have enough either common sense or fear, being gutless. i back out. >> you know me, i'm not an adrenaline junkie. i wear my seat belt. i don't sky dive. >> it was after the kidnapping and then i think if i understand what i want to do with my life