based in the uk in london though i spent most of my time on british airlines, or american airlines or quantas, something like that, just go through the list. traveling the world. >> but you didn't come up through the ranks as a guy in an open pit mine somewhere. >> no. i started by doing some chemical products in indonesia. >> so really science is your background. >> science is the background, yes >> tell me about extraction of copper now. open pit we think about this in miami, globe, tucson, sahuarita, all of these places where we have open pit mining. this is really starting to change, is it not? the technology is changing. >> that's correct. so what's happening and it's not only true in the u.s. but globally is we have to go deeper and deeper to extract are declining and therefore -- >> for environmental concerns? >> no it's only the grade. if you look at it this way you stop mining this piece and then you go this piece and then you go this piece. at one stage it doesn't make sense then we go underground and we use technology called block caving, for example, which is very high-tech i'm su