the number one adaptation is he's got quills. you feel those quills? >> jimmy: i can't.g he'll roll into a nice ball like that. >> jimmy: it why does he sound like he's about to explode? >> that's part of his defense. he wants to remind you, he's not really good at fighting away predators in any other way except for poking with quills. he makes a noise, jumps and hopes the predator goes that's too spiky. >> jimmy: do the quills jump off his body is it. >> no. >> jimmy: and porcupines, can they throw theirs? >> no. everyone thinks they can but they cannot. >> jimmy: because we watch cartoons. >> i always try to tell people, these don't make good pets. all the animals you see me bring out, they're gun pets. this is one where people think they're awesome pets, they're nocturnal, they don't want to play with you during the day. >> jimmy: but on late-night shows they like to be -- >> they don't mind because they know they're going to get tons of snacks. when they come here they get overfed. >> jimmy: this is what the flintstones used to use to clean their pots and pans, right

it's only the pure internet sellers that under quill aren't subject to the tax. so the folks that we represent are the best buy, walmart and also much more mom and pop type shops. >> any other questions? all right. please join me in thanking our excellent panel. there are many cookies left down in front. the fruit, less touched. >>> coming up in just a minute we will hear oral argument in dealing with the legal defense of a death row inmate. >> c-span's history series landmark cases returns this month with a look at 12 new supreme court cases. each week, historians and experts join us to discuss the constitutional issues and personal stories behind these significant supreme court decisions. beginning monday, february 26th, live at 9:00 p.m. eastern and to help you follow all 12 cases, we have a companion guide written by veteran supreme court journalist tony morrow. landmark cases, volume ii. the book costs $8.95 plus shipping and handling. to get your copy, go to cspan.org vish la cspan.org/landmark cases. >>> next, oral argument in mccoy versus louisiana. the s

whenever there was an opportunity, i think we should revisit that quill decision. and justice kennedy and justice thomas are the only members of the court at the time quill was decided who are still there. and in addition, and this is a deep, deep insider tip, pro tip, you know, justice kennedy, this guy has thought by some to be relatively important in the supreme court and everybody kind of took notice and on behalf of the retail community, we represent a bunch of retailers, we had a meeting and we decided to work with various states to get statutes enacted that would challenge quill. and so this is a very unusual case for us because we built the case from the ground up. we designed the legislation, got the legislation passed, the-- we went into court. we told the courts that, hello, we want to lose which is an interesting thing to do. i do that all the time, but never -- not usually on purpose and so, we said to the trial court and then the south dakota supreme court, we just want to go straight to the u.s. supreme court and we timed the case from the enactment

this is a case called quill [used to be you go to the mailbox and it would be inundated with dozens and dozens of catalogs with pictures of things with things you would imbibe it that they keep track sending catalog some people would buy some things eventually so there was a fight in the state of maryland to the catalog company was in south carolina. so the supreme court decided in the quill case that it would not evolve jurisprudence to have a substantial nexus. but uniquely in the sales tax context estate cannot tax a sale with no physical presence that means it could not be applied to the purchase from south carolina or wherever and that has been the rule for a long time. obviously with very big implications for internet sales but also many, many other companies with an effect on how it has worked so we represent the state that is challenging this precedent to establish there is a constitutional power into the internet i will try to present the case objectively and how i described it. [laughter] but if you a sense what the fight is all about. it comes back to the supreme court with s

that the commerce clause should be overruled and justice gorsuch wrote a concurring opinion that said quill should be interred that it lost its edge no longer for the internet era hundreds of billions of dollars of internet commerce. so one would assume because they granted certiorari we have the wind at our back but they do have potential argumentsia it is said the state lost the full case because of the concerns of retroactivity and had taken the position of the supreme court that they would retroactively collect several years of taxes and this was written to have no activity but the major question of a practical matter how administrable is this? what if you have a shop in arkansas.s? if you do how possible is it to figure out each in the 50 states? the other side believes it is mathematically impossible but this would be a serious concern. also when you are overruling a decision how many businesses have been set up with that with the sales tax? what that means for the shape every tale i think to have that invitation that justice kennedy will decide to roof for the state to go with the pr

a lot of pens, we think about the quill pen a lot, but feathers were not used as much as we seem to think in our minds. it had been just a wooden holder which would have helt a special tip which he would have used to write. the tip holder is from the monticello, who we borrowed this from. dates it from 1775 to 1825. when he died. so it might be something that he used when he was writing the declaration of independence. we don't know. here we are with james madison, our fourth president, and also one of our founding fathers. and what we have borrowed for this is a document called "the worship document" of 1812 from the montpelier foundation. and this document is interesting because it's a document which is for a ship, and the ship is an american cargo ship assigned by president james madison and also signed by secretary of war james monroe. who becomes the next president. but this document is to show that the ship is a neutral ship. at the time, the french and the british are taking american ships and american sailors and impressing them into their navies to fight for them or to sail for t

in the economy and in the market once people's expectations get to the point where there's some e quill ib rum we are not accustomed to 4% gdp trends >> it's going to be very hard, is it not, for equities to continue to rise at least in near term if the ten-year continues to rise. is that right or no. >> well, you are ukt correct, but it's all ab time frame so in other words, we've taken time and really shortened it down here, judge because the ten-year move popping up to 283, 284, where ever we got to today, the 30-year popping over 3%. those moves were very fast over the last few days and as we've seen those moves happen, the market's reanchctios very negative right now. now, if we pull time out and stretch it out, in order, i think those moves were very quick and now, if they are much slower, those moves going forward, i think we're going to see the market reacting positively not negatively to that >> you know that gop memo has been released. now president is speaking. >> i think it's terrible you want to know the truth i think it's a disgrace. what's going on in this country. i thin

they didn't have a quill at that time. everything we talked about seems to translate back into dollars and cents. that hasn't changed until now. we are talking about a new type of exchange and it's somewhat like bartering to me which could avoid that determination will value of the dollars and cents that brings up the question of how do you tax it on the recognized income but also in this particular case both of you identified you had these resources and regulatory oversight capabilities that you are utilizing today. you started with this discussion with regards to the issue of whether or not you had control over the fact if they were issuing in this particular case. with the regulatory needs in this case. the security an in watch, the definition of what? >> i'm going to not use the technical terms or supreme court cases but it includes if you are offering security or something and i give you money and the purpose of me giving you that money is to profit going forward, so if i gave you money and you say i'm going to take t

sammy mentioned we represent, my law firm does the state which is challenging this prior precedent quill and trying to establish that there's a crucial state. i will try to represent the case objectively in trying to describe how the other side flies. [laughter] but give you just a -- barey give you a sense of what the -- barely give you a sense of what the fight is all about. the case comes to the supreme court as a result of another case involving use in sales taxes from colorado from a few years ago in which justice kennedy wrote an opinion kind of apropos of nothing saying by the way, we're in the middle of this ind of collateral fight in how you tax things in the internet era. i know we have this kirill case and it is causing a lot of havoc in states that are unusual to get tax sales into their jurisdictions. i think we should revisit that kirill decision. and justice ken i can and justice thomas were the only members at the time that kirill was decided. and justice kennedy, this guy thought this was relatively important in the supreme court. and so everybody kind of took notice. re

and we did not had a quill at that time. but we did have number two lead. as i learn more about this think it's fascinating to see how quickly things are moving. they suddenly talk about a new type of exchange. it sounds almost like bartering to me. i'm bartering that could avoid the determination of the value in dollars and cents which brings up the question of how do you tax it if you need to recognize income but also in this particular case i noticed both of you identified that you have existing resources in regulatory oversight capabilities that you are utilizing today. and while i question whether or not there seems to have to be filled it would appear that some basics that a lot of us don't quite understand. i just want to start out. we started with this discussion. with regard to the issue of whether or not you have control over and ico. and the fact that if they were issuing in this particular case bit coin or the opportunity to market it. you had identified it as a stock or at least a value of something. what is that thread that you utilize once ag

we did not have a quill at that time. but we did have number 2 lead. this is fascinating how quickly everything is moving and everything translates back to dollars and senseia. this sounds almost like bartering to me. it is bartering which could avoid the determination of a value in dollars and cents. which brings up the question, how do you tax it if you need to. how do you recognize income. but in this case, i noticed that both of you have existing resources and regulatory capabilities you are utilizing today. and while i question whether there are saemts that have to be filled, it would appear that some of the basics that maybe a lot of us don't quite understand still have to be answered. i want to start out, because i think mr. clayton, you started with this discussion, with regard to the issue of whether or not you had control over an ico. and the fact if they are issuing in this particular case, bitcoin or the opportunity to mark tet , you had at least the stock or value of something, what is, in this particular case, that thread that you utilize

post nine creating the conversation we had awhile ago where realistically, this is a market seeking e quillibri librium. >> right the tension is draining away you're obviously taking back some of the losses that seem to be caused by a lot of the mechanical panicked selling. this is a market that's been trying to make some accommodation with the prospect of we're going to have a higher range for bond yields and potentially a little bit of an upward risk for inflation. why is the market up today dramatically starting in the middle of the day when, in fact, it sold off hard at the first sign of wage inflation weeks ago? well, one thing is that the ten-year yield on february 2nd hit 285. today, it's 290, that's not a big difference s&p 500 is 6% lower since then you had a haircut in stocks. you had time to decide this is the new world we're in, and bond yields may be are not really taking flight. nudging higher, but maybe they are not just going to be tearing through 3% >> i agree with that >> about 2.9%. guys, stay right there breaking news on a school shooting in florida. let's get to sue wit

way head when he illustrating the intensity of his family feeling, he had painted a vivid scene of quillingeveryone in the room if his son was threatened. as we fired his unit manager to collect him i jotted a few last notes and tried to massage some life back interest my writing hand. elliott asked me how i was planning to represent him in the book. luke elliott sommer, world famous signing eye path, he or offered, grinning if don't know about that. i almost wish i could be a dillinger type character, a rough bank robber type. alas, he switched for the last time into his corny sing song voice, rolling his eye thousands the ceiling in a way that reminded me of the mouth of chuckey cheese. it is not to be, he said. the guards fell in on either side of us as we were scotted out to the empty visitation room. the beiges and blaze bankrupted only by a kid's playroom in the corner with grinning cartoon characters on the walls tell rough texture or cinder block showing through. ol pointed out the small marked zone on the floor next to guard station where he had been permitted to stand and kiss man