joining me is rachel, cohead of high-yield and bank loans at goldman sachs asset management. the global -- blackrock. and head of global bonds for fixed income. i want to begin with you. asking the question essentially that the essence of our peace. -- other piece. the junkiest part of junk, leveraged loans are doing ok. why? >> you can either assume that the equity is the beginning of the end and credit would catch down with it, or that this is a flash in the pan and that there will be a recovery inequity. we believe that there will be a recovery. actually, the fundamentals of the credit market and the economy are still very strong. you look at the underlying rate, very benign. likely to be so for years to come. one of our strongest conviction views is that the energy recession of 2015-2016 really hit the reset button for corporate behavior, for how the margaret was being addressed. it really gave the market a chance to heal. the quality is not as dire as people have suggested. >> you share that view? >> when you look at the high-yield market, there's some very strong techni

golder,me is rachel cohead of yield and high loans at goldman sachs asset management, marilyn watson blackrock, and robert tipp of pgm fixed income. rachel, i want to begin with you. and ask you the question of the central of that piece. equity markets all over the place. yet, the junkiest part of junk is doing ok. leveraged loans are doing ok. why? rachel: you could either assume that equity is the beginning of the end and credit would catch down with it, or this is a flash in the pan and there will be a recovery in equity. we believe there will be a recovery, that actually the fundamentals of the credit market and the economy are still very, very strong. you look at the underlying default rate, very benign and likely to be so for years to come. one of our strongest convictions is that the energy recession of 2015, 2016 really hit the reset button for corporate behavior for how the market was being addressed, and it really gave the market a chance to heal. so the quality of the market is not as dire as a lot of people have suggested. jonathan: you're not alone in making that point,