rachel maddow show" starts right now. good evening, rachel. >> good evening, chris. thanks, my friend. and thanks at home for joining us this hour. >>> by some measures, this was one of the scariest moments in recent american history. january 2009. we lost more than 800,000 jobs, the most in more than a generation. the following month we lost another 700,000 jobs. we were shedding jobs the way a sheepdog sheds fur in summer. the economy was like a boulder running downhill, crushing things as it went but just picking up speed as it rolled. and in the middle of that harrowing, are we still tumbling, yes, we are still tumbling national free fall, president obama signed a $700 billion economic stimulus plan into law to try to arrest that fall, to try to make the nightmare stop. the president went to denver, colorado, to sign that bill when it was ready to be signed. and on the occasion of president obama's trip to denver to sign that stimulus bill to try to save the economy, they staged a rally called "barack obama: you don't know stimulus." it had a name. and i say it was a staged rally because it was organized by americans for prosperity, which put out a call on conservative networks for people to show up in costume pig noses and carrying giant checks. it was a staged protest with help from the tea party group, americans for prosperity. they staged these in states around the country, not always with pig noses. at the rally in virginia, you can see the supposedly grassroots angry commoners all showed one preprinted "americans for prosperity" signs. also that year, americans for prosperity tried the same kind of color-by-numbers prefab protests on energy issues. they called it their hot air tour. a supposedly grassroots movement against the whole idea that global warming might be a real thing. 2009 was the year when joe the plumber was still briefly famous and americans for prosperity hired him. they sent joe the plumber around the country on a supposedly grassroots campaign against union rights. if you go to recessrally.com today, it just looks like another dodgy, generic weight loss scam site. but back in 2009 in the middle of all those astroturf campaigns, recessrally.com was where americans for prosperity orchestrated yet another supposedly grassroots campaign against health reform before the bill ever passed congress. americans for prosperity orchestrated supposedly spoon spontaneous outpourings against health care, thanks to the tender guidance and cash of the americans for prosperity benefactors known as charles and david koch. if you combine the two billionaire brothers' net worth together, charles and david koch collectively are the richest man in america. individually, they're halfway down the top ten list, i think at this point, but combined, they have more money than anybody else in the country. they got that way because they inherited a privately owned oil and chemical corporation from their dad. they've used that immense fortune to try to create the impression that large numbers of grassroots americans believe exactly what the billionaire brothers believe about what is best for america and also what is best for koch industries. but regardless, america, too. now the koch brothers have a whole new campaign going. we've been talking on this show about the koch brothers funding the groups that brought us the government shutdown. koch industries declaimed any responsibility for the shutdown once under way, but koch brothers groups were funded to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars, the major groups that pressured the republicans to do it were all funded by koch-related outfits. now, though, the government shutdown is over, they started turning the lights back on again on thursday. that means stuff like, oh, we're finally getting a new jobs report 2 1/2 weeks after it was due. the people who put together that report got furloughed, so we won't get the 2 1/2-weeks-late jobs report until tomorrow. new poll out today from cnn says for the first time since taking control of the house, americans think it's a bad thing that republicans have control of the house since they used that power to shut down the government and bring us to the brink of default. a majority of americans in the new cnn poll say they don't want republicans controlling the congress anymore because when they control the congress, that's bad for america. so, politically, the 16-day-long shutdown was not kind for republicans while it was dragging on. it continues to hurt them now that it's over. the tea party wing of the republican party, though, insist insists that the shutdown was worth it, was worth shutting everything down to strike a stylistic, if not symbolic, if not substantive blow against obama care, which they hate so much. they're warning already, even in the wake of the shutdown, even in the wake of poll numbers like those from cnn, they're warning in the wake of the shutdown that their fight against obama care, their fight against more americans having health insurance, is a fight that has only just begun. sheryl gay stoleberg at "the new york times" has been reporting on what the sharp end of that republican campaign looks like now. it's not happening in washington. it's actually happening in the states and state kohl's. and it turns out that effort in the states looks a lot like the fake astroturf, koch-funded rallies about the stimulus bill or union rights or about whether or not global warming's a real thing. hundreds of volunteers in green t-shirts turned out for a commission hearing, bust in by the americans for prosperity organizers who provided them with subway sandwiches for lunch. "this has been one of the trench warfare efforts for a year now and i think it's one of those hidden stories of the whole fight against obama care, said the president of americans for prosperity. it's not flashy, it's just in a whole bunch of state capitals and in the districts of a whole lot of slate legislators, but it is important in rolling back obama care." trench warfare in a bunch of state capitals. the specific capital in that report was richmond, virginia, where the republican-controlled state government is still considering whether to use federal money to offer health insurance to thousands of people who do not currently have health insurance in virginia. the koch brothers are orc orchestrate ing this fight against expanded health insurance in virginia, right down to the bright green t-shirts packing all the public meetings. last night, a tea party chapter in northern virginia sent out this e-mail to all of its members, asking them to turn out for another virginia hearing today. they say, "this time, our goal is to have our expert witnesses testify for our position. there's been a move to silence us and not allow our witnesses. however, we will have two witnesses of the seven this time." they continue, "unfortunately, americans for prosperity," meaning the koch brothers group, "will not be providing us buses this time. please come anyway, if at all possible, to support our witnesses." support our tea party witnesses. yeah, there may not be a koch brothers funded bus to drive us there this time, but at least we'll have our witnesses telling virginia what to do on health reform. and sure enough, if you look at the agenda for this virginia state government hearing today, right there under medicaid reform options virginia should consider are two witnesses from koch brothers connected groups, two of them scheduled for 45 minutes of public time brought to you by the same billionaires who spun those 2009 town halls against obama care out of pure air, who spent hundreds of millions on the organizations who brought on the government shutdown from which the nation is still emerging. and the guy from americans for prosperity says they're waging trench warfare in state capitals around the country. this is what they mean. and they're not just in virginia. the same woman from the hearing in virginia, here she is telling the idaho state senate to not expand medicaid under obama. here she is again in oklahoma telling lawmakers in that state not to give more people health insurance. here she is in new hampshire telling lawmakers there, "in my opinion, i don't think there's one good reason to expand medicaid." she must be getting very good at fitting her luggage into the overhead compartment. here she is again, this time in mississippi, talking to lawmakers there as a "medicaid expert." this is a traveling astroturf road show of koch brothers-connected, "experts," all trying to stop the states from getting health insurance to people who don't have it now, particularly to low-income people. we saw this with the koch brothers trying to stop college students from signing up for health insurance, right? remember the creepy ads with the big paper mache head, uncle sam turning up in your gynecological exam? they're trying to persuade college students not to sign up. in the states, they're trying to persuade republican controlled state governments to not allow more people in those states to get health insurance. and in a great many places, this road show is working. it is having the effect the koch brothers intend, with all the millions they have spent on this cause. that said, it's not working everywhere, notably ohio today became the 25th state to say that they would expand medicaid to hundreds of thousands more people in the state who currently don't have health insurance or an affordable way to get it. ohio's republican governor, john kasich today steamed past the hard right legislature to get more people covered, even if it costs him the support of some in his own party. ohio's decision leaves half the states in the country, all of them red states, controlled by republicans who are refusing to expand medicaid to cover more people. but these two billionaires are trying to hold that line. do they get their way in the half of the country that is still up for grabs? can they push their agenda, state capital by state capital, when the rest of the country is either struggling to make this thing work or just too fixated on d.c. to notice much of what they're doing? joining is dr. zeke emanuel, former white house adviser on health care policy, former chair -- chair of health ethics and policy at the university of pennsylvania. thanks for being here. >> thanks for having me again. >> why is it important from your perspective that states do expand medicaid to cover more people? >> so, there is the health reason, which is this is the poorest people in the country that are being excluded. they're people who earn under 138% of the federal poverty line, roughly for a family of four about $27,000, $28,000. so, they're poor. they need health care just like everyone else, and they're being excluded, and they're typically working people. they work already, but their jobs either don't have health insurance or don't pay enough so that they can purchase it. and medicaid has been the solution for that problem. >> what is striking because of that, because of the people who we're talking about being most affected, who are in most need being affected by this campaign is to have these incredibly, incredibly rich guys -- >> who inherited their money, by the way, did not earn it. >> who inherited -- i mean, they've done a lot with dad's money, but they got it from dad. to see them ideologically campaigning in a very effective way, state to state, and really funding the lion's share of these efforts to keep poor people from getting health insurance. is it an economic interest to them in their business concerns or is it an ideological argument? >> well, it's clearly an ideological argument on their part. in most states, it's also an ideological argument, because most states, like ohio, stand actually to benefit net-net on their budget from expanding medicaid. and here's how that works. right now there's a hidden tax on states who have to provide health insurance to their state workers, their legislators or cabinet members. and in that money is money to pay for uninsured people who go to hospitals and youth services. that will decrease. similarly, most states have a way of compensating hospitals who take care of the uninsured for the expense. that will decrease if you have medicaid. and the federal government's picking up 100% of the medicaid bill for the first three years, then it drops down to 90%. so, it's estimated that more than $13 billion will go to ohio, for example, and it will change their budget over the next ten years by about $2 billion added to their budget because of these decreases in state insurance expenses and support for hospitals. so, from a state budget perspective, this is a winner. so, it's economically rational to do, the only reason not to is i ideology. >> eve the dimmest governor can add numbers that big in their head, probably. seeing john kasich resist members of his own party that tried to force him to not expand medicaid, seeing him go ahead and do that anyway, seeing a number of other republican governors making noises that they're being, you know, dragged to it but doing it anyway, do you think ultimately as states start to do this it becomes a matter of competitive advantage that more states will have to? >> oh, absolutely, because it's going to be better for their budget, and therefore, their bond rating and borrowing money. it's also going to be better for companies in the state to know they have a stable health package and to know that the premiums are down because of things like competition in the exchanges, et cetera. so, i think, actually, states that do a good job on this are actually going to see more businesses come in, and businesses want to do, want to work in those states. i think this is -- i've actually predicted that by the end of the decade, all the states are going to be on board, because it makes so much sense. again, a lot of this is driven by the next election and probably the presidential election in 2016. once those are over, states are going to see the economic rationality. >> we're seeing so much of a patchwork, both in terms of whether or not states are expanding medicaid, which has a huge impact on the number of people with insurance in the states, but also on whether or not the exchanges work and whether they work well and whether or not they're being well promoted in the states. in states where it doesn't work well, where people, the number of uninsured isn't dropping and the number of people having easy access to more affordable care doesn't go up very quickly because the states just aren't doing a good job by hook or by crook, does that adversely impact the effect of this law at making health insurance more affordable in states where people are trying to make it work? >> probably not. so, i think actually, we're going to have an interesting natural experiment. california has gone full steam ahead with expanding health care. it was the state with i think the third or fourth most uninsured people. they have a very good website, easy to shop on, very good pricing, lots of companies in there. they're expanding medical very vigorously. then you're going to compare them to texas, which has the most uninsured people, which has been resistant to everything under the sun. and we're going to see what happens to health insurance prepare yumz miums in those states for the uninsured people and for businesses, we'll see what happens to the health status of people in the state and i think we'll have this experiment where california's going to show that really doing it well and doing it properly is much better for the state and going to be much better for the state economy. by the way, the more competition there is in the exchanges, the more they bring premiums down, the better for employers who are offering insurance, the better for everyone else. so, there's an important dynamic here where the more people you get into the exchanges, the more people who shop or have medical also is going to benefit all the rest of us, and i think that's not fully been explained to most people. texas, i think hospitals are going to hurt there because they're still going to have a large number of uninsured, and i think as a consequence, people will see their premiums not come down. >> from a policy perspective, that comparative natural experiment is going to be fascinating to watch. it also makes me feel like if i was watching this from texas right now, i would think, boy, i'm not sure i want to be that guinea pig. zeke emanuel, university of pennsylvania, thank you for being here. >> thank you. >>> new jersey governor chris christie took an interesting stand today on a civil rights issue that he used to feel differently about? no, he says he feels exactly the same way about it today, it's just caused him to act in an opposite manner. right. we'll be right back. thundecrash] [ female announcer ] some people like to pretend a flood could never happen to them. and that their homeowners insurance protects them. [ thunder crashes ] it doesn't. stop pretending. only flood insurance covers floods. ♪ visit floodsmart.gov/pretend to learn your risk. you keep the peace. we calm your congestion and pain. [ man ] thank you. thank you. [ female announcer ] you rally the team. you guys were awesome. [ female announcer ] we give you relief from your cough. you give them a case of the giggles. tylenol cold® helps relieve even your worst cold and flu symptoms, so you can carry on with your day. but for everything we do, we know you do so much more. tylenol cold®. >>> governor, do you think of your odds of getting this through the legislation? >> you know, tom, you must be the thinnest skinned guy in america, because you think that's a confrontational tone, then you should really see me when i'm pissed. [ laughter ] >> governor chris christie of new jersey. you should really see him when he's -- that video's from may of 2010. the man he's calling the thinnest skinned guy in america was at that point and still is a longtime columnist for "the new jersey star ledger." he's also the newspaper's editorial page editor. governor chris christie is the first governor in the history of new jersey to refuse to speak to the editorial board of that paper. it's the largest paper in the state and he will not talk to them. so, the governor and the largest paper in his state, he insults the editorial page editor in public for political effect, he insults the paper by refusing to speak with them over four years in office. so, what happens in the pages of that same newspaper when that governor has to run for re-election re-election? you'd be very surprised at what happens. that story is coming up. >>> nom, nom, nom. nom, nom. it has been a very bad day for the national organization for marriage. the national organization for marriage is the prop 8 group, the group that came into existence six or so years ago to make sure that gay people in california would never be able to get married. but when they lost that battle, they found a lot of other things to do. they got several republican candidates for president, including the one who became the presidential nominee of the republican party, to sign a pledge promising that they would keep gay people from getting married if they were elected president. senator marco rubio, who's made robocalls for the national organization for marriage. they sponsor events with up and coming republicans like texas senator ted cruz, who spoke at this summit sponsored by nom, nom, nom this year. in their short tenure in conservative politics, the national organization for marriage has tried to make itself a big deal in republican politics. and as the politics of marriage change in this country, they have still convinced a lot of otherwise up-and-coming republican politicians to saddle themselves with an association with this high-profile, antigay group. all that said, this has not been a good few days for nom. over the weekend, we learned that the bill that would have made it legal for the russian government to take children away from their parents and put those kids into orphanages if their parents were gay, that lawmaker who introduced that bill in russia decided to withdraw the bill from consideration, at least for the time being. russia has taken a really severely antigay turn in the past couple of years, but american antigay activists have been helping with that, egging them on. the president for the national organization of marriage, man named brian brown, has been traveling back and forth to russia to address the russian parliament and to encourage their antigay legislation over there. he was there this summer, right after russia passed a bill making it essentially illegal to advocate for gay rights, and right before they passed a bill banning adoptions by gay people or by even some straight people if they were from countries seen as too pro gay rights. mr. brown spoke in the duma in the russian parliament and he made the same case on russian tv. >> right now you're having the fight over -- [ speaking russian ] >> so, it's being translated into russian because it's being broadcast on russian tv. the head of the national organization for marriage actually traveled back to russia again this past week, again to work with the russians on antigay legislation. the folks at right wing watch noticed mr. brown's most recent trip to russia. we asked him, following their reporting, to confirm today whether or not he had actually just gone to russia again and in what capacity. he confirmed to us that he did, in fact, go to russia last week. he said he's working on organizing an antigay summit there for next year and he says he is proud to work with his russian allies against gay rights. so, it's got to be a sad day for nom, now that the next planned antigay legislation in russia, the steal your kids from you bill, has been put on hold. that bill had been slated to february, when they're hosting the olympics. now they say they plan to resubmit the bill later, maybe when everyone's not paying attention because of the olympics. maybe a quieter time would be a better opportunity to pass a law that would forcibly take children away from their parents and put them in orphanages. maybe with not so much attention. so, that was reason number one, that the national organization for marriage is having a bad day. things are getting slightly less terrifyingly antigay in russia, where they've been doing their best to make things as antigay as possible. reason number one. reason number two, up until today, new jersey governor chris christie seemed like a national organization for marriage kind of guy. he said all the right antigay things and he said them again and again and again. >> my view and my position is that marriage should be between one man and one woman. it always has been my position, it remains so. i ran that way in 2009, told people that. it was an issue in the campaign. i made myself very clear. and now that the legislature has passed that piece of legislation, then i will view that way because that's what i promised to do and that's what i think is the right thing to do. if my children came to me and said they were gay, i would grab them and hug them and tell them i love them, just like i would do with any of my children, but what i would also tell them is that dad believes that marriage is between one man and one woman, and that's my position. let's make sure that political maneuvering is not what judges this, and let's not make sure this is not just someone trying to have fun and create a campaign issue. it's too serious. the institution of marriage is too serious to be treated like a political football. >> new jersey governor chris christie has been vocally and unapologetically antigay marriage rights since he was a candidate for governor, so much so that he vetoed legislation that would have legalized same-sex marriage, legislation that passed the legislature in february of last year. so, all this stuff about him not wanting unelected judges to be the ones ruling in favor of gay marriage, he didn't want them voting in favor of gay marriage either. chris christie has always been an antigay national organization for marriage kind of republican, despite the moderate image, that's been his position. when not just the legislature but the court said that marriage equality should be the law in new jersey, chris christie appealed the decision. he said he would fight it all the way to the supreme court. well, today in new jersey at one minutes after midnight, same-sex couples began getting legally married for the first time ever in new jersey, because the state supreme court said they could, pending the governor's appeal. just a few hours after those couples started getting married, governor chris christie unexpectedly announced that he was dropping his appeal, that he's ending his fight to stop new jersey couples from getting legally married. he had a spokesman put out a statement saying that the governor is still totally against allowing gay people to get married, but he just won't fight it anymore, after fighting it all this time. the national organization for marriage responded with outrage. they said chris christie has "failed the test." they say he's revealed as a man who lacks the courage of his supposed convictions and promise now that he will never get the republican nomination for president. and that may be true. it may also be the dying gasps of a group that calls itself national -- that's the "n" in nom, nom, nom, but lately they have to go to russia to get any of their ideas put into law. it may that be they're desperate. in this any case, it raises a question of what chris christie is doing and how antigay republicans are to be to aspire to office. jeff cook mccormick is with american unity fund that gets republicans to support at least some gay rights. jeff, thank you very much for being with us. nice to have you here. >> rachelanks for having me. >> so, governor christie is still pledging that he is as antigay as he ever was. he's just not going to act on it anymore. i have to tell you that i see this as ridiculously craven and self-serving, but i am guessing that you see this as progress. >> well, rachel, you know, the governor has really been pretty consistent throughout this entire process on his position on the issue of marriage. clearly, we don't agree with him on the freedom to marry, but he's been very thoughtful and respectful throughout this entire dialogue. but at the same time, he has been truly an inclusive governor. he signed a ban on repair to therapy, which of course is dangerous to young people across the state of new jersey, and he also signed the toughest antibullying law in the country. so, i think that what the governor is trying to do here, and the type of leader that many republicans across the country are looking for is someone who can step away from some of the divisive politics of ye
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