it is sincerely believed, much like their white aunts, that -- raisman. they use that at the time. there were sacrificing themselves for the race. they were running a church out of a grocery -- working at the westboro hospital for the insane, and ensuring that african american patients can be admitted there. their founding the nwa cpp, they're doing all these public things. and, yet the way that they -- they referred to his darker skin, these very disparaging terms, that these people were last. they weren't like those amongst the exceptional. and that their job is the exceptional ones was to lift them off. it was kind of this announcement of, what is this a deal of a racial uplift ideology -- considering yourself a black person closer to the white -- >> what was at the rate of that? was it purely colorism? or was it just that they felt -- they were not respectable enough? respectability politics? there was a mixture of both? >> i think it's a mixture buff. i think it was colorism. this idea of respectability at all costs. so much so that there is this ladders that they go through b