to 537 votes in my state because ralph nader, and a variety of other reasons, too, if ralph nader hadn'tgore would have been president. so as much respect as some of us might have for howard schultz and his accomplishments and he's been a good democrat for many years, for him to suggest that the democratic party is far too left for him and he needs to, you know, shake some sense into us and run as an independent shows that he doesn't quite grasp the depth of the impact that that decision would have on our ability to defeat donald trump which is incredibly damaging. >> the democratic party apparatus, it really coalesced around hillary clinton last time. you saw people who were very much a part of the establishment, sort of waiting in the wings for her campaign and then we saw -- you yourself, you were accused and hacked e-mails that were obtained by russia which were then released, showed with good reason that that had occurred. that you and the dnc had been favoring hillary clinton, certainly in the end of the primary race even if at the very least he was trying to speed up a foregone co

>> two words which a lot of people here probably weren't even born when this happened, ralph nader. >> nader picked up about 97,000 votes in florida and al gore lost to george w. bush by 500 votes. sherrod brown also testing the waters for a white house bid kicking off a dignity of work tour in his home state of ohio. >> donald trump has used his phony populism to divide americans. he uses phony populism to distract from the fact that he has used the white house to enrich billionaires like himself. because real populism is not racist. real populism is not anti-semitic, real populism don't rip babies from families at the border. >> he will go to iowa, nevada, south carolina. >>> constantly described by even those who admire him frumpy and a little bit of a mess. sgle didn >> he doesn't care. >> take starbucks out of the equati equation, does anybody in the middle of the country even know who howard schultz is. not how you want to roll out your 2020. >>> bringing back manufacturing jo jobs, the core of president trump's campaign. now one company who said it would help may be reneging. t

so is he our new ralph nader? >> he could be.ependents have a very hard road when it comes to getting a nomination or much less an election. the states make it difficulther. what an independent can do is screw it up for somebody else. ralph nader screwed it up fort clinton. just took enough votes away. and on the other side, we saw ross perot screw it up for george h.w. bush when he ran for reelection. the independent may not win, but he or she can cause havoc, jessica, when it comes to all the other people who expect to get their share of the votes. >> fly in the ointment. >> a big one. >> with a lot of money. all right. larry gerston, it's going to be a bumpy ride all the way to the 2020 elections. >> you bet. >> for more on kamala harris's presidential campaign rally, you can head to our website, nbcbayarea.com. follow us on all digital platforms. we've got continuing coverage as she continues to campaign. thank you, larry. >>> thousands of parolees could be getting their voting rights restored here in california. under curren

they'll blame ralph nader in 2000 and even jill stein in 2016. is there data that shows that third party candidates draw more from one party than another? >> not really, no. obviously, ralph nader haunts the memories of democrats more than anyone possibly could imagine but if you look back from 1980 when john anderson ran he took it from carter to reagan. and 1992, perot, he took equally between clinton and bush. i'm just not sure there's a lot of evidence to suggest that schultz will pull from either one of the parties disproportionately. president trump's approval rating is so low that democrats would be a favorite right now and anything that could enter the party and upset that worries them a lot. >> we know his team is looking at polling data like the newest gallup polling that says 39% of americans see themselves as independent. that's more than see themselves as republicans or democrats. and they think axios is reporting that they could then bring trump down a statistical floor of 26 to 28%. but schultz is, has been, until now, in his words

. >> two words which a lot of people here probably weren't even born when this happened, ralph nader. >> nader picked up about 97,000 votes in florida in 2000 and al gore lost by 500 votes. sherrod brown also testing the waters for a white house bid kicking off a dignity of work tour in his home state of ohio. >> donald trump has used his phony populism to divide americans and to demonize immigrants. he uses phony populism to distract from the fact that he has used the white house to enrich billionaires like himself. because real populism is not racist. real populism is not anti-semitic. real populists don't engage in hate speech and don't rip babies from families at the border. >> his listening tour will take him to iowa, nevada, new hampshire and south carolina. >>> bringing back firefightering jobs, it was the core of the president's campaign and now one company says it would help may be reneging. since my dvt blood clot i was thinking... could there be another around the corner? or could it turn out differently? i wanted to help protect myself. my doctor recommended eliquis. eliqu

joining us now, ralph nader, former third party candidate himself as you all know.t, ralph, to mr. schultz potentially getting in and also to those who say that by getting in, if he does, he will pretty much guarantee the re-election of donald trump. >> well, if howard schultz persists in an independent party run, apart from the duopoly, it's going to be a nightmare for the democrats and maybe the republicans. first of all, because he's a multi billionaire, he will get mass media coverage. he has plenty of money for ads. he will be on the polls and will have a chance to get on the national debate. here's what i think he's thinking in terms of strategy. one, he will shave off votes from the republican liberal wing and from the democrat conservative wing. connell: from both sides, is what he thinks. the democrats think he will only take from them, he will re-elect trump. you don't think that's right? >> we will see what the polls say. he's got some real conservative positions like on social security and medicare. we'll see what the polls say. connell: what about you?

and that vote got tilted in bush's favor because of ralph nader's presence in that race. i also think there's a long history of other independent candidates who have never surmounted around 5% of the vote. >> what is the point though to running as an independent for howard schultz? he's not going to win as an independent. i'm going to put that out there. what's the point for running? >> he must think there is some pathway forward. otherwise this seems like. >> or you know, there's a great argument to be made we need a robust third party in this country. i think there's an argument against that you don't want to do that in the middle of a campaign in which people have concerns about donald trump getting re-elected. >> yeah, grace, i want to talk about this decision to have stacey abrams deliver the rebuttal after the state of the union address. what are we expecting from her and do you feel it's a smart choice? >> i think it is a smart choice for the democratic party. as we know, there's a long history of people delivering these rebuttals where they've been considered a ri

ralph nader was an independent in two thousand he took enough votes from al gore the democrat it to to elect george w. bush president of the united states who didn't even carry the popular vote that could happen again. good to speak with you as always bill schneider joining us there from washington thanks very much. at least two people have been killed and four others injured in an attack on a mosque in the southern philippines mindanao region the area is home to a substantial muslim population in a majority catholic nation it happened in zamboanga city and comes just days after muslims in a part of mindanao got more control over their affairs in a landmark deal with the government and that attack follows a bombing at a cathedral on the southern philippines learned of holo president rodriguez deterred today has ordered an all what he calls an all out war against those responsible but despite the violence muslim and christian leaders say they remain united from the hollow al-jazeera jamila in dog report. roadside bombings abductions and people displaced from their homes it's all p

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the corvair is fate was sealed in one nine hundred sixty five when consumer advocate and lawyer ralph nader published his book unsafe at any speed and it he called the core of their the most dangerous vehicle on the road home sales plummeted and in one nine hundred sixty nine production of the corvair ceased entirely christo thinks that's a real shame for him it's trend setting design and its status as the first turbo charged mass production model make the corvair monster spider a milestone and automotive history is that whole family's house by that definition . in one nine hundred sixty five the corvair range got a new body and the turbo charged engine was no longer offered quickly and quietly chevrolet relegated its pioneering series production turbo model to the history books. and next time on drive it we test c.n.c. terracotta s.u.v. . and take a look at opals future driving that she th concept car. i'm going to. come. on. climate change. the state. environmental projects. of globalisation the face biodiversity species conservation exploitation be quality. human rights displacement. of

of course, ralph nader in 2000, green party candidate, he had 93,000 votes in the state of florida.nal victory margin for george w. bush in florida was just 537 votes. we had been talking about that one for a generation or so since then i think that's one of the reasons every time now you get a third party candidate who potentially steps into the mix, everybody's mind goes back to 2000 and they think of that extraordinarily close race in florida. they think of nader. for that matter they think of pat buchanan pat buchanan was also there and that butterfly ballot may have had a factor i think 2001 created this framework where people think these third party candidates can completely thank history. >> if anybody wants to know more about that, you write a lot about that in your book. it's become very constructive for us to go over that again steve kornacki, good to see you, nbc news national political correspondent. let's take a quick look at markets before trading wraps up for the day. actually all of that red is an improvement. it was down over 400 earlier today. dow looks doto be clo

and ralph nader winning with al gore losing a contested vote with assistance from the supreme court gave. jill stein pulled a decisive number of democrats from hillary clinton in wisconsin and michigan. we know who won that one. howard schultz should show that they don't always spoil things but usually does. and that's "hardball" for now. and that's "hardball" for now. >>> tonight on "all in. " >> is donald trump an intellectual? trust me i'm like a smart person. >> the president mocks his intelligence chief as they warn of another shutdown. tonight senator chris murphy on the shrinking presidency of on the on the. >>> new reporting

ralph nader got 22,000 votes.on new hampshire, little new hampshire with our four electoral votes, he would have been elected president of the united states. so i think we have to be very conscio cautious as we think about independent candidates. >> he says if he gets in the race, hopefuls will vote for donald trump, not democrats. but first he has to get in the race, so we'll see. there was a national poll this week that found one in three republicans would like to see donald trump primaried. 65% said they wanted him to be the nominee, but regardless, new hampshire was the state that trump first won in the republican primary in 2016. where do you think new hampshire republicans are now? >> i think they're split. i think some are very much opposed to donald trump, but i also think he has a base here. and i think it would be hard for somebody in a primary to beat donald trump, even in new hampshire. >> yeah. well, the incumbent always has a leg up, that's for sure. let's see how it plays out. much more ahead of tha

it was the same for people ril r ralph nader and jill stein. there are ways to change the way we conduct elections but you have to do the work of making that change and making those investments as o popposed to ju thinking if we all believed strongly enough we could overcome the laws ofarrhythm arithamitic. >> they believe that some will logically vote for him. >> it amazes me that somebody at his level in the world wouldn't do more research, at least a goog google search about who he thinks he is reaching. he conflats independents with moderates. there are a lot of independents, but it doesn't follow that that they occupy the center. and that the center is not where he thinks it is. there are about 16% of the american people who say the two parties are too extreme, right? those people will would receptive maybe to the pitch he is making -- >> and some who identify as republicans and some that identify as democrats that might come -- you're growing on a base of 16% according to pew research. not 40. >> absolutely not 40. most people that identi

votes away from a democratic nominee, their concern is proper, charles, because history tells us ralph naderly, possibly cleared the way for al gore defeat and also ross perot did the same to insure a clinton victory. so they are proper in believing that this could potentially upset the flow of balance in a presidential race. charles: rashad, i know you're progressive. what do you say that howard schultz saying ocasio-cortez misinformed on america, kamala harris, not correct, not american. he is saying these two women in your party who are moving it further to the left, who have become superstars essentially what they believe is in un-american? >> yeah. i think somebody needs to check his bank account to see how many republicans contributed to potential campaign for president. him coming out and saying senator harris and congresswoman cortez are un-american is ridiculous to me. they are diverse in opinion. they may represent extremes, however, they are still part of the american fabric. it is our diversity that makes us who we are in this country and him calling him un-american in my opinion

on who the nominee will be, and we can't afford to have a situation like the 2000 election with ralph naderth al gore and george bush. it's going to be close and we need to be united with what's best for the country. that is getting donald trump out of the white house. that is caring about the middle class. and that is not something that howard schultz is doing right now. ed. >> tina podlakowski, thank you for joining us from washington. we appreciate it. >>> first we learned that the government shutdown cost the economy $8 billion, and another group found that the president's tax cuts did not inspire companies to hire more people. >>> plus, as tom brokaw faces heat about hispanics and language, a duke university professor urged chinese students to speak english. we'll have those stories ahead. n and 26 vitamins and minerals! ensure. for strength and energy. >>> a promise kept and a promise broken. president trump said he'd deliver a big tax cut for corporations and he accomplished that with the help of the republican led congress, but promises that the tax cut would mean b jobs and investm

in the same way i would bet that ralph nader, or at least of his supporters wishes that he didn't wantmake george w. bush president how they didn't make trump president. you know this better than anyone. trump's margin of victory. you remove stein you could make the argument that hillary clinton would be president of the united states. >> the big difference is they argument the two candidates were too similar. i don't think that's the problem now. howard schultz doesn't think that's the issue. he thinks the parties are so polarized and apart from each other that the majority of the american is what's together. he's going out and asking the question, is there a better way to help focus that energy. sdp y >> you say the problem is change. you couldn't unite the polls in one candidate. you're saying the whole is in the wide middle? >> yeah. i'm saying the politics is different and their motivations were different. he believes most americans agree on most of the big issues. >> the president wants shultz to get in because he thinks it will help him. he tweeted he didn't have the guts to be

. >> ralph nader impact down in florida perhaps. >> and let's talk about the here and now.n politics still in full force. we heard from mick mulvaney sunday on the weekend shows saying the president could do another shutdown, but then sarah sanders said this -- >> the president doesn't want to go through another shutdown. that is not the goal. the goal is border security and protecting the american people. >> lauren, what is the way forward here for avoiding another shutdown and getting through this? >> that is a great question. there is now 17 elected officials on congress, on chi , capitol hill, who are charged with figuring out the way forward. we have the conference committee that is essentially trying to figure out a solution to border security. but they are essentially tasked with an impossible setup. even president trump this weekend says he gives them less than a 50/50 shot at being successful. so that is not exactly a vote of confidence. b that being said, at least right now the consensus is that no one wants to see a shutdown. we'll see what president trump says a

so they are very worried about a ralph nader with money, essentially putting a spoiler in purple statesnton, there is not a lot of stomach for her running again among many democrats even voters who liked her are not excited to see her as the face of the party. >> she got more votes than donald trump. in the end, more people voted for hillary clinton than donald trump. but is their appetite -- >> that's right. and is schultz a venti size challenge. >> oh, bad. >> let's get back to kamala harris who kicked off her campaign in oakland. she will be on cnn tonight with jake tapper. you might hear things like this. >> we must answer a fundamental question, who are we. who are we as americans. america, we are better than this. when we have foreign powers infecting the white house like malware let's speak that truth. >> she's enjoying that moment. how -- is she the frontrunner where we stand with the given field? and what separates her from the pack? wants the medicare for all plan, climate change clearly at the top of murder agenda. >> elizabeth warren is also pretty formidable, but she is a s

ralph nader got 93,000 votes in florida. al gore only lost florida by 537 votes.o, by the way, pat buchanan. there was the whole issue with the butterfly vote that seemed in confusion to vote for him. in that very narrow circumstance, you can clearly see where third party had the effect. but when it comes to the question here of schultz and what effect he would have, you heard it there. the democrats say he splits the anti-trump vote. trump has a majority disapproval rating right now. the democrats saying those folks will be content to vote against trump, don't give them more than one option. give the folks one option, they'll all vote against trump and trump will be out of office. it's a theory that schultz would complicate that. the history of these third-party candidaies is they don't always land the way they say they will. and does his candidacy just offer a home for the reluctant trump voters? remember these traditionally voting republican, didn't like trump, but in the end they sided with him because they couldn't do it, they couldn't go and vote for hillary

and controversy elegy of brandeis, it would have been as if carter or clinton tried to appoint ralph nader to the supreme court. that's what a red flag rand ice was to economic -- brandeis was to economic conservatives. it was a hard-fought battle, and brandeis' confirmation was very much across party lines. i think there were four republicans who voted for him. only one democrat voted against. that's controversial supreme court fights, american as apple pie. anything else? >> no. >> okay, eric. you want to talk about anything else but race? [laughter] >> i want to talk about a lot of things other than race. first of all, thank you for including me. i should say i'm here neither to bury nor to praise. [laughter] >> neither to bury or praise cooper or wilson? [laughter] >> i can praise john cooper for the rest of the panel. that's easy. i want to go back to the quotation from alan brinkley's, brilliant historian. i'm loath to disagree slightly, but i want to push on the idea that regresses, we can build a formulation of progressives were good on this, that on that. the challenge for analyst

third-party candidate, who will that harm >> well, in 2000, we saw -- there's no question that ralph naderly tipped the election from al gore to george w. bush. >> that's why i'm asking. >> you could make a good case that jill stein in michigan, wisconsin, pennsylvania, made a big difference in the last race. if i own stock in starbucks, and if i really thought howard schultz was going to win, i would sell every share i've got. because the democratic boycott of starbucks would be absolutely enormous in the end, i kind of doubt if he does. but i'll tell you what democrats would act very, very, very hostilely, i think, if they saw someone coming from the left and running as an independent, siphoning votes out. wow. that would not be a pretty sight. >> all right thank you, charlie cook and to doris kerns-good win. >>> up next, the campaign to save a historical black college. the critical funding they need, and the celebrities that are rallying to help be rightac bk. if you have psoriasis, little things can be a big deal. that's why there's otezla. otezla is not a cream. it's a pill that treat

and ralph nader winning with al gore losing a contested vote with assistance from the supreme court gave to george w. bush. jill stein pulled a decisive number of democrats from hillary clinton in wisconsin and michigan. we know who won that one. howard schultz should show that they don't always spoil things but usually does. and that's "hardball" for now. and that's "hardball" for now. >>> tonight on "all in. " >> is donald trump an intellectual? trust me i'm like a smart person. >> the president mocks his intelligence chief as they warn of another shutdown. tonight senator chris murphy on the shrinking presidency of on the on the. >>> new reporting oaffmeeting of the president's son and election interference. >>> he asked me for a contribution for the senate race. >> it should be less about billionaires getting to hang on to that last 2% of their bezillion dollars. >> and he called it the eighth wonder of the world. >>> we can say the eighth wonder of the world. >> donald trump and the fox con boon doggal. >> except i became president. >> when "all in" starts right now. >>> good evenin

problem, that, you know, ralph nader, i can't remember what percentage of the votes say four of the 5% would have chosen gore, you know, as the second choice and it works in the other direction and it doesn't have any particular partisan feel to it, but it's a way to build a runoff into the election itself. >> i would add that you do get majority support among the public. when you explain it to them with the simulation you do get 55% support and it is bipartisan. this kind of thing and these kind of structural reform, people support them and they like the idea of independent candidates being more capable of winning to weaken the power of the incumbent party just to break it up. they're the total solution, though, and they do think that members have to actively want to consult and get input from their constituent that just, restructuring the incentives and all that is good, but it's not the total solution. >> just so you know, i'm not convinced that's the best way to go. that you have a runoff to get 50% and just because i was in sports and all, you have playoffs. you have playof

ross perot had a message, ralph nader had a message. successful inchdependents, john anderson had a message. he doesn't know what he is for yet. so why the freak out? >> i think that the one thing that unifies democrats is the focus on taking our country back from what trump has thrust upon it. and reorienting us around core american values. the idea of a third party candidacy self funded by a billionaire poses a threat to that because somebody like howard schultz is likely going to take away, think of the obama, truck voters, they're not going to be for trump but they could be for howard schultz. the idea of that, risking our ability to prevent donald trump from getting kicked out of the white house is alarming. however, i do think we are going a little overboard. we're 24 hours into this. he says he is thinking about it. let's see what happens. he may completely implode himself or he could make a better case for the democratic party. we have to see. >> right. >> i think you said something, chuck, that's very important. i think that's

ross perot, ralph nader, amongst the most infamous examples.rats still steaming over jill stein's 2016 bid. the democratic party in washington state where schultz's former coffee empire is based treated a photo of a starbucks cup with the words on it, "don't do it, howard!" 202020 democratic hopeful julian castro voicing the fears of some in his party, here. >> obviously, if he runs, it's going to make an impression on the race. but i do share that concern. i have a concern that if you did run, essentially it would provide donald trump with his best hope of getting reelected. so his only hope, if things stay the same -- and that's a big "if" -- is essentially to get somebody else, a third party, to siphon off those votes. i don't think that's in the best interest of our country. we need new leadership. i would suggest to mr. schultz to truly think about the negative impact that that might make. >> harris: and that's a democrat. president trump also got his digs in. "howard schultz doesn't have the guts to run for president. watched in on "60 mi

people said if ralph nader had not been there, we would have had a different president. in florida. must say when i hear you say you don't think kamala harris has charisma or doesn't have a plan, wait a minute. the deficit is exploding under someone who had no way of saying -- >> greg: medicare for all and free education. >> juan: trumps that i'm going to cut taxes, i'm going to drop the deficit. the deficit has exploded them i don't hear republicans saying a word. >> greg: no matter what you do, whether you raise taxes or cut them, it doesn't matter. >> juan: it's clear we are losing money on the tax cut. >> jesse: we aren't losing money. the government is losing money. we have more of our money. >> morgan: this howard schultz discussion is fascinating to me. you are talking about ross perot got almost 19% of the vote. i looked this up today. since 1788, we've had 58 presidential elections with a third-party candidate won about 5% of the vote on average. what the democrats are saying is why would you run? you can't win anything, and the electoral college you can't win. i think we m

we've seen independent candidate s like ross perot, and even ralph nader and jill stein takeaway votesndidates running for the republican democratic ticket , and the democrats believe that schultz would pull a lot of support from anti-trump voters who would normally go to the democrats, so there's a furious effort underway both publicly and privately, among democrats discourage howard schultz for running for president. >> a very close race could come down to a few states as always and a third party candidate could really swing it one way or the other. another challenge in a very crowded field is getting enough attention. take a listen to former governor mike huckabee on that issue and i'll get you to respond. >> it's very difficult to get your message out, especially if the media decides to pick one or two candidates and to just give them all the attention. that's what happened to us and an actual study shows that donald trump got 90% of all the coverage during a two-week period in august, on cnn's primetime and the other 16 candidates shared the remaining 10%. in that kind of environm

what happened with ralph nader. there is a part of the party -- >> harris: ross perot.that give bill clinton the white house with less than 50% of the vote. i'm packing my bags, going to davos, and checking into the ritz-carlton. >> melissa: i love it, sounds fantastic. on that note, maury "outnumbered" in just a moment with all that usaa offers why go with anybody else? we know their rates are good, we know that they're always going to take care of us. it was an instant savings and i should have changed a long time ago. we're the tenney's and we're usaa members for life. call usaa to start saving on insurance today. >> melissa: think you to guide benson. any thoughts for us? are you running for president? >> guy: never. that would be nice, but also never. i'm zero for two on those thing things. >> katie: the american dream is alive. >> melissa: think you two capri, as well. katie, melissa. we will be back at noon eastern tomorrow. for now, here's harris. >> harris: a lot to get to this hour. let start with the former associate of president trump facing charges in court

. >> many democrats still have nightmares about what happened in 2000 when ralph nader ran on the greente ticket and he, in effect, the argument of some democrats, cost al gore the presidential election. talking people close to schultz, they say their belief is if he does run, he could try to pull, as you said, from some republicans, moderate republicans who may be turned off by president trump and some democrats who may not like the leftward drift of the democratic party. it's tough unless you have a billion dollars to spend and mount a real independent campaign we saw how challenging it was for ross perot in 1992 but that's the political path. believing both parties are going too far toward their base. >> i'm also thinking about jamie diamond and there's been a number of ceos who have done quite well and probably more centrist than either party, at least the energy in the party at the moment and someone like that could come out and potentially run an independent campaign, right? or is that route completely over, a total dead end and no prospect for anybody of that kind of philosophy r

i have two words the ralph nader.not take much. >> frankly same thing with ross perot in 1992 cost george h.w. bush. bill clinton won with less than 50% of the vote. i think it would be a great democratic candidate if he chose to run as a democrat. said he is lifelong democrat. he said he is concerned that the party has gone too far to the left. but if he runs as an independent, it will be a problem for democrats, not republicans. connell: potentially annika, at least one candidate, off top of my head would fit the profile, former new york city mayor mike bloomberg who could run as a democrat, would he be issue for president trump? his issue is getting through the primary if we talk abouted. >> if he runs as democrat he looked at running independent in 2016,. connell: no path to victory. >> maybe if he ran this time as democrat. people would have to think about the issues and listen to the candidates. he would have to make it through the nominating process. connell: is that the profile that should scare trump supporte

ralph nader went through it when he dared to run third party in 2000.stein experienced it on the green party ticket in 2016. they called her an agent of russia for daring to do that. they never charged her for that crime though, so she's free to join us tonight, and she is, dr. joel stein with us tonight. thanks very much for coming on. you would think that the party of diversity would be far more diverse views, why is that? >> i'm not sure it's actually the part of diversity. we got two parties and they are both for corporate masters in the fossil fuel giants and the big banks and wall street and war machine, so that's not my opinion that the democrats are the party of diversity, but let me say, voters deserve more choices and in the last election we saw over 100 million voters, the largest block of voters is not voting because they are not being represented by the system. so we really do need more choices. we need noncorporate choices and people powered choices and we can have those choices without fear of splitting the vote. there is a win-win soluti

the democrats may split off to support schultz and trump wins just as they split off to support ralph nader. that election wouldn't have been so close if nader had stayed out of that one and ross perot pulled voters way from george h.w. bush. president trump tweeted a challenge, i suspect a reverse psychology, howard schultz doesn't have the guts to run for president. watched him on "60 minutes" last night. i agree he is not the smartest person. besides, america already has that. i only hope starbucks is still paying me rent in their trump tower. we'll continue to watch that. i think president trump very much wants howard schultz to run. you can follow me on twitter, i'm not the smartest person either. i'm @scottmcgrew. >>> take a look at this. new video chaos on the hudson river in new york, rising waters and ice jams sent several boats breaking free on friday. state police were forced to close several bridges between the morning rush hour as a precaution, as those boats were all just drifting away. one cruise ship eventually had to stop when it got jammed under a railroad bridge, that's o

he's not ralph nader.d is he wants to have a conversation with the american people to see if perhaps the hour of disruption may be at hand for our utterly broken political system. and make no mistake about it, the brokenness of that political system is what resulted in the election of donald john trump. are we fated in perpetuity to be in this cycle of revenge politics, of self-interest where the american people are not represented, their future is not represented, or can we do something better? 600 days before the election, he's asked the question. and so we decry rightly the ill liberalism of donald trump, his attacks on the press, his attacks on the rule of law, but what about the illiberalism of people who claim to oppose trump who shout down people from the public square. it seems that for some the progressive utopia that is on the horizon is one that will not come about by persuasion but by imposition because you better dare not speak out of line, out of turn, no deviation or you are shouted down and

ralph nader went through a 20 ran third party in 2,000, joel stein saw it on the green party ticket,o you remember that? they called or an agent of russia for daring to do that, they did not charge her for the crime, so she is free to join us tonight, dr. jill stein, thank you for coming on. do you think the party of diversity would be for more diverse abuse, but they are not, why is that? >> i'm not sure that it is a party of diversity, we have two parties that are working for corporate masters and the fossil fuel giants in the big banks, wall street, and the war machine. that is not my opinion that to the democrats is the party of diversity, but ford voters dese more choices. in the last election we saw over 100 million voters, the largest bloc of voters is not to voting, because they are not being represented by the system. we need noncorporate choices and people power choices. and we can have those choices without fear of splitting votes. there is a win-win solution. it is called ranked choice voting. the state of maine just passed it. it is used by millions of voters around the

democrats remain skeptical, worried that an independent bid by schultz could repeat ralph nader's performancehat will displace the control of the republican and democratic parties. >> reporter: his vote more than eclipsed george bush's margin of victory over al gore. the democratic field is taking shape. former congressman beto o'rourke is avoiding questions, saying he won't talk to reporters until he makes a decision, yet has an interview scheduled with oprah next week and popular senator sherrod brown, dignity of work tour wednesday in his native ohio, where he did not hold back in his criticism of president trump. >> donald trump has used his phony populism to divide americans and demonize immigrants. >> reporter: brown's tour continues in iowa with future stops planned . their argument, he's getting plenty of attention and is now a big part of the conversation. they also believe the more he gets hammered by both republicans and democrats that it will only help to shape his image as an outsider, appealing to independent voters. jake? >> ryan, thank you so much. we're back with the experts

it's simple arithmetic. 18 years ago, ralph nader called me up.s a green party candidate of a permanent left party and gore will still have enough votes to win. i said the arithmetic doesn't work. if you run, bush wins. if you run as an independent, trump wins. >> this guy was salvating that ross perot would run -- >> i never supported ross perot. and he took equally from clinton and bush. >> well, i -- >> so there's your point. you are saying that schultz would take from the left and just from the democrats. i'm not sure that's true. i'm not sure that's true. any more than we were concerned that ross perot was going to take from george bush. it turned out, he didn't. he took from both sides because there were alienations on both sides. >> both parties are private clubs. let's understand this. the american people need to understand this. now mathematically, the democrats will have a challenge but this is about the democracy part. >> earning the vote. go out and earn it. >> earn the vote. or have a conversation with mr. schultz. >> run, schultz, ru

but the independent candidates who have had the most negative imfrakt their perspective are ralph nader and jill stein who demon strait strablly helped elect republican presidents '. >> i think they're freaked out about his $3 billion more than anything else. i think that's the thing that makes him -- >> which he said he would be willing to spend. >> all of it. >> which gets you three coffee at starbucks. >> i think people are going to try to figure out what that means. because i think about if you're going to win you're going to have to get people from the democrat side and also the republican side. so independent centrists, what does that mean? and it's going -- i think that there's going to be a little bit more pressure on him to kind of figure out where those policies are and how they can get some of those people to come together in the middle so he has enough of a voting base. because you're just -- i don't know what ma means. i don't know where he stands on several trade issues or other issues that really -- that are important. >> there is broad -- to the center right and left on

just as they split off to support ralph nader, that election wouldn't have been close if nader it stayednd ross perot pulled voters away from george h.w. bush. >>> a recent stoud . >>> people with high tax states like california with incomes above 100,000 but below 500,000 could be hit the hardest. we'll go over some of that as we talk business, coming up in about 30 minutes. in the meantime, join me on twitter @scottmcgrew. >>> the next requires a song -- ♪ quit playing games with my car ♪ that's the message this colorado mom got out of the car in the traffic jam after being stuck there four hours. she decided she needed to stretch her legs and bust a move there to the backstreet boys. take a listen. ♪ everybody >> her teenaged son not happy about that. >> mortified. >> mom, come on! but she seemed to be happy and i'm sure she spread a little cheer to a lot of people stuck in traffic there. look at mom go. go mom! go mom! >> he's holding his hands to his ears. he doesn't even want to hear the music. >> mom's saying look at me. >> after four hours i'm sure that seemed much shorter for hi

i can see if it's november 2020 you can say my goodness are you going to be ralph nader to ralph nader'sblicans would love for him to run. chris christie said run, please run, schultz. he would divide the democratic party. it's interesting how much changed. i remember when bernie sanders got in the race running against hillary clinton. and how he divided the democratic voted, too. there were so many younger democrats that voted for him and supported him. and really did, it cost hillary clinton the race. now they don't want that to happen. steve: sure, the reaction to him is so sharp because clinton has a lot of money. and he presents a real threat. meanwhile, talk about this. yesterday we were telling you a little bit about the fact that here in new york state governor cuomo signed the reproductive health act which makes it legal to have an abortion up until birth. we had cardinal dolan on the program yesterday. and he hates this. and he hates the fact that andrew cuomo, a catholic, signed it listen to this. brian: look at the celebration. >> this is hideous. do not brag about making the

ralph nader had over 90,000 votes in the state of florida alone.nstead went to the green party. pete: yep. ed: if you have a third party candidate like this coming at it from the left in 2020, this could be a insurance policy for president trump. pete: you probably don't know who howard schultz is, here's a little bit about why he thinks he might have a sliver of the electorate, howard schultz. >> at a most fragile time not only the fact in this president is not qualified to be the president, but the fact that both parties are consistently not doing what's necessary on behalf of the american people and are engaged every single day in revenge politics. katie: former governor mike huckabee has run for president twice and was on the show earlier talking about how democrats are trying to outleft each other. >> the the big issue is there's not a dominant candidate. it's not like it was for the democrats last time with hillary. basically, it was all mailed in. the fact that the democrats have moved so far to the left and all of the early candidates are t

and again, competition from ralph nader wasn't the cause of the problem for al gore.s the ballot design in one county that cost him 10,000 possible votes down there, that upset the florida election. so, i'm all for competition. i think we should have more candidates. if people don't like more candidates they should look at ranked choice voting which allows you to rank choice of your top three candidates and, you get to redistribute votes if your candidate loses but nobody got a majority. there is ways around the impediments that people claim exist to independent candidates but a competition of ideas is healthy for america. neil: you know, if you look at all parliamentary systems across the country, i'm not saying we go to the parcel men temporary route, countries have a mall gam like parcel men and our republic, italy, one of my favorite countries, will have half a dozen candidates at one time competing for voters attention. they get out all their ideas. some are deemed cockamamie and some legitimate. let voters sort it out. it doesn't have to be vanilla, chocolate. y

well but, maria, third party candidacies as he is seen as fast with ross perot most recently and ralph nader sure. maria: democrats don't want him to run. funny picture of a starbucks cup and they use to write let's talk about this but they rose howard, don't do it. what you think about that? the dems don't want him in the race. >> i guess the democrats hope that 25 candidate was enough. we got such a large field they will be various lanes as i see it my swim lanes if you will in the democratic primary with the progressive wing, more centrist down the middle with a number of former governors or sitting governors and then mayor bloomberg likely to run on the democratic side and former vice president biden was the large figure to see what he will do. you got a lot of people in that race and you got president trump in the white house with that will be a big factor clearly in the democratic primaries. we will see how this plays out. it's a major development, no question about that. >> we know who trumps bases and we know who the base is in general that all of the democrat candidates are vying fo