we played american university the night before with ralph nader and myself and my brother.boko haram played -- we were on the big stage. i got pictures of phil oakes. he was my hero at the time. when the stormtroopers came in, we got to play because they left one microphone on and we were an acoustic group. we played for an hour while the writing -- fighting and protesting was happening. we threw our instruments to the people in the crowd. we escaped and got to umass. we flew to umass and played at a protest at umass. they did not know about the fighting. it was not on the news that the stormtroopers came and everyone got it up and arrested. when we got to umass, we were reporters. thank you for your book lawrence. it was my first time getting to read about what happened. i am still a musician. it was only because my friends suffered their that i protested -- suffered there that i protested. i was a college performer. thanks for having me on. host: before you go, do you remember what was the rationale to have a rock concert during these protests? dear member what you were t

with ralph nader, and myself and my brother and then jay guile's played. proco harem played outside of the embassy there. the next night we were on the big stage and we played that night, i have pictures of phil oakes he was my hero at the time, and the next day when they shut the power and the storm trooper started coming, we got to play again because i went to the promoter and said they are leaving one microphone on, and we are the acoustic group, so we played with one microphone. we played for about an hour while the fighting was going on and the protesting. we were finally forced off the stage, we threw our instruments to the people in the crowd, and we jumped into the crowd and we escaped. we flew to university of massachusetts, and they didn't know about the fighting. it wasn't on the news that the stormtroopers came, it wasn't on the news that everybody got beat up and got arrested. so when we got two university of massachusetts, we were just musicians we were reporters. and thank you for your book lawrence, it's the first time i got to read about w

we played at american university the night before with with ralph nader. and myself and my brother and then jay giles played and then poco haram played outside at the amphitheater and then the next night. we were on on the big stage and we played that night. i got pictures of phil oakes. he was my hero at the time and the next day. when they shut the power in the storm troopers started coming we got the play again because i went to the promoter and said they're leaving one microphone on and we were acoustic group. and so we played with the one microphone. so we played for about an hour while the fighting was going on in the protesting. we were finally forced off the stage everything. we threw our instruments to the people in the crowd and we jumped into the crowd and we we escaped we got to umass we flew to umass and we played in a protest in umass and they didn't know about the fighting. it wasn't on a news that the storm troopers came. it wasn't on the news that everybody got beat up and got arrested. so when we got to umass we were only musicians we wer

why is it ralph nader and not -- >> i think it has changed a little bit as that passage alludes to. like the covid vaccines are a good example of that where you have a model now we see moving towards more of this kind of public-private partnership where you have core science done kind of open source style supported by governments, academic research, and then you have some private-sector energies that are tapped into an scale in capabilities big corporations have. that's a potent combination. it may be the future. it's really not the past. penicillin was one the first examples of that. fisa was involved in scaling up penicillin, those large, most important research was done in academic context and funded by the military but it was a private sector engagement in that as well. >> there was the supermarket. >> of course. the key contribution. before that point, a number of the things were kind of deep infrastructure things, the sewer system. that was very hard to make private-sector kind of rally to build sewers. that was something the state had to do to clean the water. in some cases l