ralph reid jack abramoff myself and some guy that jack hired. c-span: you suggested that ralph rood was on the airplane with you and i was in a passenger jet. who flew you to scotland? >> guest: jack abramoff. c-span: what year was this? >> guest: 2002. c-span: with a picture of a whole group if you standing in front of the plane. has this been cleaned up in this town? and a member, remember this picture? i think it's jack abramoff son. >> guest: this part of it may have been cleaned up most likely. c-span: how available warplanes to you when you were chairman of the administration? >> guest: one pointed want to make about the trip. the trip was underreported. the trip did not turn out as we had listed it and didn't meet with people we were supposed to that should've written a check for the trip. tom heaney from florida got in trouble and didn't go to prison. i can't compare myself to other members and why did the government, why couldn't i write a check? as far as this trip we didn't know particularly it was still fuzzy who paid for it. a point