back, as i continue my conversation with congressman ron paul of texas and his son, senator-elect rand paulf kentucky. they report to work on wednesday when the 112th congress gets under way. when he's working, he'll be living with his dad. they're going to share congressman ron paul's condominium in virginia. i asked them about their relationship and if congressman paul may make another bid for the white house. are there issues that you guys totally disagree on. is there one issue that you fundamentally disagree on? >> we agree not to talk about that. we say it's a new year's and i'm staying at his house. how can i get into a war with my dad on tv if i have to come over for dinner tonight? >> have you ever -- anderson, let me ask you a question. i know i'm not allowed to ask a question, but have you ever met two people who agreed on everything? you know, my wife doesn't agree with me on all my policies either. >> well, congressman paul, i've heard you say that when your son -- that rand, of all your kids, was the one who kind of gave you the most pushback when he was younger. is that true?

a message that is loud and clear it is not mince words kentucky may two thousand and ten when dr rand paul clinch the republican nomination for u.s. senate and this is is now. the tea party is still a force in america. tea party senators and their supporters even braved the washington d.c. snow for this the first ever meeting of the senate tea party caucus what started off as something dubbed a fringe movement of the republican party has now made its presence now not just at marches and rallies but all the way here to the most powerful halls of the u.s. government and that something is the tea party and its leaders de mint today are meeting last night and you know rand paul is talking he said my goal is to make the mint look like a moderate. because. the premise of the united states has been co-opted rather to parity and we among others now in a position of real power the question is what will they do with that power we've got to start coming up with real solutions about cutting spending and about what we're going to do to change things while speaking of cutting a recent usa today gallup p

rand paul. host: all right. one of the members of the tea party movement, michele bachmann, a republican, started the tea party caucus on capitol hill duty is part of -- was part startedce the nation -- the tea party caucus on capitol hill. she was part of "face the nation." >> will you vote to raise the debt ceiling? >> i will wait to see what direction the republicans want to take. >> i voted against the tax-cut bill because it blowhole in the budget -- blew a hole in the budget. republicans will not allow the full faith of the american people to go down the tubes. this is their game to run. this is an adults' game. >> you risk having the government come to a standstill. >> i do understand what happens. raising the debt ceiling is absolutely irresponsible. we have been spending money for so long that we do not have it. tax revenue comes from people who are working, people who are profitable, not from raising tax rates. >> michele bachmann? >> at this point, i am not in favor of raising the debt ceiling. i am u

and as we saw, rand paul won and sharron angle lost barely.t even if republican extremism hurts the party in the short run, history suggests the long run is another matter. when the new right purged rockefeller incumbents in 1978, democrats captured seats in massachusetts and new jersey. ultra conservative ideology come wine with the the persecution narrative attracted voters, and by 1994 conservatives swept into power. today's gop now includes people like michele bachmann, paul brown, steve king and ron paul and now rand paul as well. even gop mavericks like john mccain have turned right to insulate themselves from purges, endorsing positions they might secretly detest and refusing to compromise with democrats for fear of being named republican in name only. in short, as the republican party became -- it became more powerful, and as it became more powerful, it became more extreme. the democratic wins of 2006 and 2008 had much to do with unhappiness over the iraq war, the collapsing economy and republican political scandals. when the wheel of

and now rand paul as well. even g.o.p. mavericks and nursing positions they may secretly detest and refusing to compromise with democrats with the year of the name derives no. republican in name only. as it became more powerful becomes more extreme and the democratic wings of 2008 had much do with the unhappiness over the iraq or -- war as the politics turn again the most conservative g.o.p. in recent history they will come to power with a popular mandate to take back the country. we may see that next year. the fact is that the right wing persecution mythology is compelling to many americans as shown by pat buchanan, rich lombok, glenn beck and sarah palin to name a few. millions to embrace were right ring ideology only the right appreciate them and defend their interests and the most fanatical the country to destroy enemies and bipartisanship showing that compromise and treason and by a punishment of traders is to encourage the america's most violent is through insurrection and to break the nation in half and the persecut

rand paul, the junior senator, excuse me, rand paul, the senator from kentucky, the-or-senator from kentucky, talked this week and pointed up some of the divisions within the gop ranks. this is what he said. >> some said when people who came from the tea party were elected, that washington would co-opt us. the interesting thing is, is that i think we're already co-opting washington. >> you talk about earmarks. you talk about some of the sentiment about spending. is the tea party sentiment driving the gop now? >> i find great unity among republicans. not only the members who are here, but the new parties who came are interested in tackling the spending and debt and getting the private sector going again. i think the most interesting unreported divisions in the town are among democrats. i mean if you look at senate for example, we have 23 democrats, a significant majority of those who are running in the next election. looking at the results of the last election, and i think they are have a growing awareness that what they did the last two years, was rebuffed by the american people. let's look

rand paul of kentucky, marco rubio of florida, and mike lee of utah. then democrats who still narrowly control the senate immediately set out to try to overturn the long standing filibuster rule, which senate republicans used again and again last congress to block bills they didn't like. >> we know both sides have abused the rules. now it's time for us to work together to fix them. >> reporter: currently it takes 60 votes to break a filibuster, not a simple majority. but not all democrats are in favor of changing the rule, they say that could come back to haunt them if they find themselves in the minority. katie? >> couric: nancy cordes, nancy thanks very much. with the power shift on capitol hill and a presidential election next year, changes are coming at the white house as well. they started today when press secretary robert gibbs confirmed he is stepping down. so let's go to chip reid. chip, gibbs has been with the president since he began his run for the white house so why now and where is he going? >> reporter: gibbs says after two years of worki

rand paul has proposed half of 1 trillion dollars -- hald of $1 trillion this year alone. ul ryan has said it is only feasible this year to cut about $60 billion this year. guest: i think they need to go further than that. i think there's a lot of pressure inside congress to not cut spending. nobody likes to make tough choices. this is not a democrat versus republican problem. i would say it is the establishment versus reformer problem. paul ryan is getting a lot of pressure from his own members. that is what the tea party is here for. host: how will you hold paul ryan and john boehner accountable? if $60 billion is the number they get to this year, what will happen? guest: it is not just that number. that was their initial number to cut spending. we are really looking at the total number that comes out of the house budget resolution, which will probably happen by april 15. it will probably happen in conjunction with the extension of the debt limit. we have a good short-term measure of where republicans are going to be. host: what are you looking for? guest: i'm looking for

i am so excited to see what rand paul does. i cannot wait to see what he does. i am glad he got elected for no other reason than i want to see what this tea party message -- i want to see how he governs. if he does an amazing job then there is the leader. >> thank you so very much. before we end i want to bring this to a very different light and save those of you sitting in the front can see the shoes. gee of has the latest, greatest sneakers and i pray for meghan mccain in those high heels. they are wonderful. they have been wonderful. >> thank you for coming out. thank you. [applause] >> meghan mccain writes a weekly column for the daily beast. for more information on "dirty sexy politics" visit mccainbloget.com. >> we are at the national press club with diane ream, and the our hostnd

know, working with veterans apiece and then i kind of went off on my own working the 25% solution, rand pauland barney frank. but it is so hard to get the populace to connect the dots. you know, you have got to cut out this militarism in order to give you domestic a chance. >> yeah, it is true. it is true. as a look at history one of the things i have seen myself as a parallel to what you talked about in terms of the moral nature of war, which is the racial invasion of war, and as i look back at different wars that you talk about in your book there is almost always a racial element whether weather does japan in world war ii, the seminal war, various wars and there is also the element of the wars that go back from king philip's war 200 years later to the closing of the frontier. and the example i always tell people is is present mckinley at the beginning of the philippine war saying we have to go to the philippines to christianize her little brown brothers who had been christianize for a couple hundred years. so i failed and just to ask, could you reflect on the nature of that racial ossetian

people said rand paul was to out there with his ideas. he is an incoming senator. he will be sworn in this week. the primary campaign looks bad on the outside. let's remember back to 2008 when president obama and hillary clinton continued until june with their primary. that did not hurt president obama's chances at all. host: starting on monday, january 3, the process begins starting with the rnc chairmanship debate, which c- span will cover live. it will be hosted by americans for tax reform. it will be a debate of the folks running for chairman of the republican national committee. it will be nominated -- it will be moderated by tucker carlson. do you expect that context to be bruising and bloodying? guest: the republican national committee did not spend a lot of money on independent expenditures in favor of republican candidates because they did not have the money. they did not do a good job of raising it. they spent it in other ways. these outside groups that have come in, thanks to court rulings in 2010, the outside groups have stepped up and put a lot of mone

to expand its balance sheet and one of the things that you're hearing a bit about right now given rand paul is kind of the leader of the anti-fed movement in congress and he has a new role on a subcommittee of the house financial services committee that is pushing this measure to audit the fed, to add new oversight to the fed, to do a lot of things for the fed and the reason for this is in large part because of the fed acting what some people call as a fourth branch of government. central bank has a number of roles. it was actually first designed out of crisis 1913 to deal with -- to serve as a lender of last resort for the economy and for banks so that you don't have runs on banks, you can have stability in currencies. we have had -- this is the fed now is in its third it ration as the central bank of the u.s., the first ration and the central bank were so contentious in terms of federal power centralized in one place they were eliminated and wasn't until woodrow wilson in 1913 that you had the fed created and there is certainly a movement now among conservatives in congress to try to what

rand paul, republican from kentucky joins us from there. and democrat chris coons come to us from his home state of delaware. senators, welcome to "fox news sunday." >> good morning. >> thanks, bret. >> bret: thanks for being with us. i'll ask you the same questions i asked representative clyburn and rogers to start off here about the tragedy in arizona. does the shooting say anything about the political discourse in the u.s.? and does it change anything in washington? senator paul, first to you. >> well, i think most importantly in the initial stages here, we need to emphasize the humanity and the tragedy of this whole thing. you know, we're people like anybody else. respe representative giffords has a family and children. that's most important that we talk about the tragedy and how awful it is. before we take a step beyond that, once you do take a step beyond that, i looked at some of the writings of this young man. from a medical point of view, there is a lot to suggest paranoid schizophrenia, that this man was a really sick individual.

i am so excited to see what rand paul does. i cannot wait. i'm glad that he got elected. i want to see the libertarianism, if he does a good job, there's your leader. >> okay. thank you so very much. before we end, i want to bring this to a very different light. and say those of you who are sitting in the front, they can see the shoes. geo has the latest greatest sneakers. i pray for meghan mccain in the high heels. >> thanks. they are jessica simpson. >> they are wonderful. they have been wonderful. >> thank you for coming out. thank you. [applause] >> the reason i felt it important to do a book essay because that is what it is on the obama administration is because it's extremely important for progressive people not to create too many illusions about what is around because they don't help. to see in quite a hard-headed way what this new administration is, but it represents in terms of foreign policy, continue t and what it represents at home, and it's important to do that, to understand to what extent it's different than what extent it is continuing the policies of the

paul is of interest because, you know, he's a favorite of the tea party and his son rand paul has called for cutting spending as has eric cantor and this is all tied to the notion of deficit reduction which has its own issues, you know, whether we should be reducing the deficit in the middle of a recession and so forth. but if there's going to be a deficit reduction plan, there are much forces at work saying the military should take it's fair share and since it's 50% of i say budget it would be a substantial reduction. and the arms lobby is going to fight back and lockheed martin is to buck mckeon and daniel inouye who has the appropriate subcommittee in the senate. he's the number one guy for earmarks so that means, you know, what takes away with one hand he might try to give back with the other. but i think there will be a battle. there will be a debate which is new, something we haven't really seen in the last 10 years i would say. >> so i think we're -- i think that was great. thank you all. [applause] >> this event was hosted by barnes & noble booksellers in new york city. to find o

pat toomey, rand paul and other candidates new to the congress have said during the campaign everything is on the table when it comes to making america fiscally sound. let's see if we can find bipartisan reform in social security before we raise the debt limit. >> do you think senator mcconnell, the leader of the republicans, will go along with that? >> i hope so. i know that speaker boehner is going to produce spending limitation bills every day. but the question for the republican party, for the tea party, democratic party, beyond discretionary spending are we willing to look at that time debt commission's suggestions and entitlement reform and begin to enact those reforms before it is too late? i hope the -- this new congress will do something the other congresses have never done and that's seriously look at entitlement reform by adjusting the age and benefits, including medicare part d. obama health care needs to be repealed and replaced. the republican party created medicare part b, prescription drug entitle many, that has gotten out of control. i hope we will put that on table for

you have russ feingold agreeing with ron paul, ralph nader, rand paul. these are basic american values. i want to agree with don that if you are adopting policies or laws out of fear, what are you doing? york capitulating terrorism. it is a cliche to say that the terrorists win. if we are spending money and wasting our assets in being a distracted nation on things that the color coded security alerts that were fortunately got rid of after four years of being on the second-highest level. that sort of security measure does nothing in terms of genuine security. host: columbia, missouri. go ahead. caller: good morning. thank you for discussing this. my main problem with this whole flaying is that, again, it was a knee-jerk reaction. it seems to be with our federal government gives us in this area and every area. liggett the generalized systems that are supposed to be a one size fits all. we get it in security, taxation, everything. almost everything the federal government does is a one-size- fits-all government. america is a big place and one size simply doe

rand paul has proposed half of 1 trillion dollars -- hald of $1 trillion this year alone. host: paul ryan has said it is only feasible this year to cut about $60 billion this year. guest: i think they need to go further than that. i think there's a lot of pressure inside congress to not cut spending. nobody likes to make tough choices. this is not a democrat versus republican problem. i would say it is the establishment versus reformer problem. paul ryan is getting a lot of pressure from his own members. that is what the tea party is here for. host: how will you hold paul ryan and john boehner accountable? if $60 billion is the number they get to this year, what will happen? guest: it is not just that number. that was their initial number to cut spending. we are really looking at the total number that comes out of the house budget resolution, which will probably happen by april 15. it will probably happen in conjunction with the extension of the debt limit. we have a good short-term measure of where republicans are going to be. host: what are you looking for? guest: i'm loo

the tea party members like senator-elect rand paul are dead set against it.has white house staffing decisions to make, including who should fill the role of white house chief of staff and chairman of the national economic council. >> on top of that the president is also going to be looking for a new press secretary. robert gibbs will be leaving the white house fairly soon. he's expected to assume a more senior counselor role, or he may serve as an outside adviser for the white house to help in the president's re-election campaign. >>> police in delaware may have a new clue this morning in the mysterious murder of a former presidential aide. john wheeler, a prominent defense consultant who worked in both bush administrations, was found dead in a landfill on friday. police say wheeler was seen alive 24 hours earlier, not far from his attorney's office in wilmington. they hope this tip might lead to more leads in the case. >>> the navy has now fired that aircraft carrier commander just two days after his controversial videotapes went public. now though there are

for example, the most responsible-minded politician in the united states, paul rand, is now in a position of real influence which he wasn't before. he is about the only politician i've heard talk reason about how much needs to be done to bring the u.s. fiscal situation under control. you just mentioned the cbo. the congressional budget office said before christmas to stabilize the debt to gross domestic product ratio in the united states you would have to increase all federal taxes by something like 12% or cut all entitlements by that much. the imf is a similar scenario. only japan is worse than the u.s. when it comes to the magnitude of the fiscal adjustment required. and yet virtually the same week that the cbo said that, the president agreed with congress on another $900 billion of red ink, and the deficit is third year running 10% of gross domestic product. >> what about the economic situation now in the u.s.? we got the gdp report out on friday. it came in at an annualized rate of 3.2%, ken. what does that tell you? >> it's a little under expectations and reinforces the notion we're

it could have been marco rubio, it could have been rand paul, it could have been one of many.on tonight is, and i say this not only about the republican responses but also the president's speech. there were a lot of times we sat in the chamber and thought bill clinton bombed the 1990s when he went on and on and it seemed dull and boring and self consumed. and his numbers shoot up in the polls. americans may be drawn to what this president does tonight. >> boy, you're not saying media experts sometimes wrong, are you, joe? >> no, i'm not. i'm not. in fact, i'm telling you as republican members of congress sat and snickered in the seats as bill clinton seemed to go into the third and fourth hour and just like wiley coe oyote w said we got, but his numbers shot up. >> there's sometime zones where the speech is continuing. joe scarborough, thanks as always. we'll come back with more coverage of the state of the union address here live in washington. i feel the same way when i do taxes. turbotax has a unique gps feature that guides me step-by-step. and calculations are guaranteed 1

rand paul, he's going to be the one that is living with his father. he's the new senator from kentucky. he joins his father ron paul the congressman from texas and when they're both sworn in they'll make history. the first time a father serves in the house, while his son serves in the senate. gentlemen, welcome to you both. i guess you are the reverse of the kennedys. you had senator ted kennedy and his son patrick. you guys are the opposite. >> good to be with you. >> good to see you all. let's get into some of the tough choices you are going to face that diane set up right there starting with the cutting of the spending. i look at this pledge to america that so many republicans ran on this year. it says, we will roll back government spending to prestimulus, prebailout levels, saving at least $100 billion in the first year alone. yet we read this morning in "the new york times," let me start with you, senator-to-be paul saying that they're scaling back, that ambitions -- aides to the house republican leader say the goal is $50 billion to $60 billion.

paul, rand paul, and ron paul, his father a long-term congressman from texas. wilmington, delaware. brian, inpent, you are live on c-span -- independent, you are live on c-span. caller: i basically had a comment, too. i don't know if anybody in this country has looked at the clothing that they wear, the toys they buy for their kids, and just an assortment of things we buy retail shops. nothing is manufactured in this country. and that's the biggest problem that is the reason why we don't have jobs because we do not make anything in this country anymore. that would solve a big problem in the u.s. if we stop outsourcing all of our manufacturing and stuff to other countries. that's pretty much it. host: thanks very much. we are televising live from inside the cannon house office building. the members of the house have named their three major office buildings after former speakers. joe cannon is the honoree for this building. longworth is named after nichlas longworth. and this building was the oldest of the three. you heard congressman price talking about it yesterday. . why is 76 cent

freshman republican rand paul of kentucky says he will unveil his own budget plan.t would result in a $500 billion cut in one year. that is five times more than what the house gop has planned to do. his version of the budget would target programs at virtually every agency, including the defense department. an update on presidential politics. a campaign to draw mike pence of indiana into the 2012 presidential race began yesterday. a deputy counsel to ronald reagan introduced the americas president committee. a former republican representative is helping to campaign and collect signatures from conservatives and tea party members. >> the house takes up the repeal of the health care law. watched today's debate and final vote on wednesday. go to c-span.org to read the bill on line and comment on our twitter or facebook pages. >> the best way to carry on dr. king's work is to reach out to someone and make an ongoing commitment to community service. >> on the 82nd anniversary of martin luther king's birth, the use the c-span and video library to relive his life. host: rame

i am so excited to see what rand paul does. i cannot wait. i'm glad that he got elected. i want to see the libertarianism, if he does a good job, there's your leader. >> okay. thank you so very much. before we end, i want to bring this to a very different light. and say those of you who are sitting in the front, they can see the shoes. geo has the latest greatest sneakers. i pray for meghan mccain in the high heels. >> thanks. they are jessica simpson. >> they are wonderful. they have been wonderful. >> thank you for coming out. thank you. [applause] [applause] . . of how rewarding and enjoyable it was it was off the charts. we had a great time doing it and the writing was shockingly much

guests include rand paul, and a congresswoman from washington state. at 3:00 p.m., it is state of the union. dick durbin and lamar alexander r. guest. at 4:00 p.m. eastern, it is face the nation carr. jon kyl from arizona and chuck schumer our guests. also house democratic whip, steny hoyer. the five network tv talk shows are brought to you as a public service by the networks and c- span. begin ate re0-airs noon. listen to them all on c-span radio at 90.1 in washington, on radio ontellite channel 32. or go online to cspanradio.org. >> thank you very much occurred you've honored me and my family by giving me an opportunity to serve you and our nation. >> with more than 80 appearances by william daley and more than 100 by gene sperling, you can use as the c-span video library to learn more about the newest additions to the obama administration. washington your way. >> i think news organizations have adapted. is it great that we have not -- that overall, news organizations are not doing as much for news or domestic news? but the public knows there is art

the people that voted for rand paul and the people who campaigned -- >> thank you for your patience. they are coming back in for a fourth round of voting. >> there will be 168 ballots. please note that the ballot boxes in the at this time. we will now proceed to the fourth round of voting. the names of the following individuals are properly in nomination for chairman of the republican national committee. ann wagner, reince priebus, michael steele, maria cino, saul anuzis. there are 168 eligible voters in person or by proxy to cast a ballot. any questions? secretary sharon they will call the roll. >> alabama, alaska, american samoa, ariz., arkansas, california, colorado, connecticut, delaware,d.c., ,hawaii, georgia, was oguam idaho, illinois, indiana, iowa, kansas, kentucky, louisiana, maine, maryland, massachusetts, michigan, minnesota, mississippi, missouri, montana, .ebraska could we please go in the roles we go when so you are not fighting the traffic trying to go the opposite direction? that would help us. nevada, new hampshire, new jersey, new mexico, new york, north carolina, n

take a look at the kentucky race where everybody said that rand paul was too conservative to be elected from kentucky, too out there with his ideas. well, he's an incoming senator. he will be sworn in this week. so primary campaign looks bad on the outside but let's remember back to 2008 when president obama and hillary clinton continued until june with their primary. that didn't hurt president obama's chances at all. host: now, starting on monday, january 3rd, the whole process i guess begins, starting with the r.n.c. chairmanship debate which c-span will be covering live at the press club and hosted by americans for tax reform. it's going to be a debate for the folks running for the chairmanship of the republican national committee and will be moderated by grover nor quist and tucker carlson. do you expect that contest will be bruising and bloodying? guest: it will. the republican national committee didn't spend a lot of money this year on independent expenditures, didn't spend a penny on independent expenditures in favor of republican candidates because they didn't have the money. th

to expand its balance sheet and one of the things that you're hearing a bit about right now given rand paul is kind of the leader of the anti-fed movement in congress and he has a new role on a subcommittee of the house financial services committee that is pushing this measure to audit the fed, to addnew oversight to the fed, to do a lot of things for the fed and the reason for this is in large part because of the fed acting what some people call as a fourth branch of government. central bank has a number of roles. it was actually first designed out of crisis 1913 to deal with -- to serve as a lender of last resort for the economy and for banks s that you don't have runs on banks, you can have stability in currencies. we have had -- this is the fed now is in its third it ration as the centralank of the u.s., the first ration and the central bank were so contentious in terms of federal power centralized in one place they were eliminated and wasn't until woodrow wilson in 1913 that you had the fed created and there is certainly a movement now among conservatives in congress to try to what the

>> boehner and paul's plan -- rand paul's plan? >> i have not seen his plan. it would not be fair for me to comment on it. >> are you disappointed the president did not discuss reform in more detail? >> i think the president did a very good job of saying to the american people these of the things we have to do as a nation to be competitive and grow the economy. we have to do the best job of educating our kids, we have to continue to the american trade and innovation, we have to do everything we can to improve our infrastructure is if we're going to be competitive in this world economy, and at the same time, we have to deal with our deficits in a responsible way. that requires women fundamentally reform our government performs. -- that requires we fundamentally reform our government performs. i would like very much if the president would have spent a bit more time helping the american people understand how a really big this problem is. we are borrowing 40 cents of every dollar that we spend. you cannot continue that much longer. on top of that, if you look at t

>> boehner and paul's plan -- rand paul's plan? >> i have not seen his plan. it would not be fair for me to comment on it. >> are you disappointed the president did not discuss reform in more detail? >> i think the president did a very good job of saying to the american people these of the things we have to do as a nation to be competitive and grow the economy. we have to do the best job of educating our kids, we have to continue to the american trade and innovation, we have to do everything we can to improve our infrastructure is if we're going to be competitive in this world economy, and at the same time, we have to deal with our deficits in a responsible way. that requires women fundamentally reform our government performs. -- that requires we fundamentally reform our government performs. i would like very much if the president would have spent a bit more time helping the american people understand how a really big this problem is. we are borrowing 40 cents of every dollar that we spend. you cannot continue that much longer. on top of that, if you look at t

. >> what's your take on rand paul's plan who says he doesn't want draconian cuts?his plan, to be direct. i have not seen his plan, so it wouldn't be fair for me to comment on. >> were you disappointed that the president didn't talk about discussing reform in a little more detail? >> i think the president did a good job in saying to the american people, these are the things that we've got to do as a nation to be competitive and grow the economy. we have to do the best job of educating our kids. we've got to continue american innovation and got to do everything we can to improve our infrastructure if we are going to be competitive in this world economy. at the same time, we've got to deal with our deficits and debt in a responsible way and that requires that refundamentally reform the way our federal government performs. this is a new age and we have to recognize that. i would have liked very much if the president would have spent a bit more time helping the american people understand how really big this problem is. we are borrowing 40 cents of every dollar that we s

look at as the metrics or other indicators for when we should kind of ease off on the stimulus, and rand paul of -- ram up the deficit reduction peace. should that be based on a time line? senator conrad -- senator conrad, you have a lot of actions starts to click in 2012, 2013, 2014. should it be based on one growth hits at a certain level, unemployment falls to a certain level? what should be the indicators that even if we get a plan in place that would trigger the kind of hard choices now we are looking at? >> first, let me say i enjoyed meeting with your group. i commend you for the extra work you are doing on this issue. there is an important tradeoff. we need to demonstrate a credible commitment to solving the long-term fiscal problems. the stronger and more credible the plan that is put forward, the less need there will be to take sharp short-term cuts in order to show your seriousness. a strong long term plan that takes him over time will make it less necessary to take actions in the short term that would be counterproductive from the point of view of a recovery. that is why it is imp

to expand its balance sheet and one of the things that you're hearing a bit about right now given rand paulis kind of the leader of the anti-fed movement in congress and he has a new role on a subcommittee of the house financial services committee that is pushing this measure to audit the fed, to add new oversight to the fed, to do a lot of things for the fed and the reason for this is in large part because of the fed acting what some people call as a fourth branch of government. central bank has a number of roles. it was actually first designed out of crisis 1913 to deal with -- to serve as a lender of last resort for the economy and for banks so that you don't have runs on banks, you can have stability in currencies. we have had -- this is the fed now is in its third it ration as the central bank of the u.s., the first ration and the central bank were so contentious in terms of federal power centralized in one place they were eliminated and wasn't until woodrow wilson in 1913 that you had the fed created and there is certainly a movement now among conservatives in congress to try to what