but randy shaw of the tenderloin housing clinic was directly involved in the 1980s and the intent was to notify the tents -- tenants taking place and the nature of the work. if you look at this building, they talk about a quarter of a million dollars, they knew it was going to be substantial. they chose not to say anything. >> i have a couple of questions. so when exactly did they find out about the permit, do you have a date? >> the first time we heard it referenced on july 30th. i had no idea this had been applied for in october of 2012. immediately next day -- >> you are talking about the first one. the one at issue is the second one. >> this is july 30th because they did receive notice that there had been permit application for a revision to cost the original permit. >> doesn't the revision permit, maybe you are not the appropriate party to start a new appeals period? >> that's what we were trying to do. unfortunately the notification of permit was filed after the permit application had already been filed and if you recall at the last hearing, scott sanchez said the initial permit