in fact, horton, ray horton who was an advocate with another academic wrote a book. and in their press release they said, and he balanced the budget op the backs of the poor. it's in their press release. it isn't in the book. he did not say that in the book, but he said it in the press release. i called him in. i said, where in your book -- because i knew it wasn't there -- do you support this premise that we balanced the budget on the backs of the poor? well, mayor, we didn't say that. so i said, but it's in your press release, and that's what the room 9 reporters are going to use. why don't you go down there and say it's not in your book. well, we're not really good at press relations. really? [laughter] and as a result of that, i never, ever participated in anything ray horton was in charge of. and he was in charge of, he was the directer of the citizens' budget commission. they would have dinners, and they would invite me. i mean, mayor's the big guy on the block. i said, no, i will not come. so we always had to feet that. -- fight that. but on a positive level w