you raise the specter of ray kelly. ray kelly has been a very stalwart defender of his department's approach. believes genuinely he's saving people's lives. saving black and brown people's lives. he's been floated as possible head of dhs. given this policy and how associated with it, how stalwart defender, what do you think of the possibility of ray kelly being nominated to head dhs? >> i think that it is possible me gets nominated. i think if he gets nominated, he'll face the fiercest opposition from the civil rights community that any person put forward by president obama ever has. it will be vocal and outspoken because he has chosen to be vocal and outspoken about racial profiling. i'm not sure that, frankly, he really believes in this. at the very least, he was against racial profiling before he was for if. he thought stop and frisk was dubious before he became its biggest champion. and -- >> well, he's definitely -- there's been a trajectory. there's been some movement. i'm willing to grant. ben jealous from the na

ray kelly is--no one likes abusing the constitution more than ray kelly does.e said these are not quotas because the cops say on the streets, look, we've got quotas. we have to do these 250s a certain amount of times. ray kelly is making us do them. ray kelly said they're not quotas. what did he call them? production goals. production goals. that's awesome. >> i think it's a product of how our society is run. and how it's directed at certain folks, and you know which certain folks i'm talking about. but when you have father, sister, brother, they have to check to make sure that their family gets ms. not because of the danger of the other residents but because of the quote protectors of the community. they're going after anyone who is walking around getting into their place of residence. if no one hears that story they think, of course, there are so many minority crimes. there is no x-ray vision to see that guy is a criminal. these are humans. the police are humans, and they're making judgments off their own misconceptions, perceptions or past experience of what

ray kelly himself a few decades ago stood against this very idea of racial profiling.ery ideal today he seems to want to back up and push along. i think that is something to be disappointed about if it should ever come. and i believe with that certain communities would be right to push back against this is administration if they made such appointment. i don't believe by any means this is a perfect administration although i certainly believe in many of the things that the obama administration has been able to push forward and the kinds of fights they are waging. this would not be one of them for me. >> all right. thanks so much, goldie taylor and michael eric dyson. >> thank you. >> we will be right back to clear the air. huh...fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. mmmhmmm...everybody knows that. well, did you know that old macdonald was a really bad speller? your word is...cow. cow. cow. c...o...w... ...e...i...e...i...o. [buzzer] dangnabbit. geico. fifteen minutes could save you...well, you know. iand we're talkingl time with maria a

criminal wrongdoing they're almost given expansions ray kelly is going over and consulting with jean kwan in oakland about how they can fight crime there i mean it's just a potential secretary they are going to fire is what really cared i wanted to see what you thought about kind of did you know we're getting rewarded for perpetuating this kind of criminality across the city absolutely i hope that the ruling actually flips some about right because what it indicates is that ray kelly while serving as the police commissioner of the n.y.p.d. has been responsible for previous of systemic and but for the court ongoing civil rights violations i do hope that if nothing else this closes the door on talk of his potentially coming to washington to lead us because he has absolutely no business serving in the federal government it does. also seeing that this has implications for bloomberg political legacy right his last act as a mayor seems to be trying to resist the effort to restore accountability to the n.y.p.d. the judge's decision takes it out of his hands and is a final repudiation by an i

i think ray kelly is right and the judge is wrong. >> but most of the stop and frisks are people getting busted for pot. i can tell you i live in the west village i smoke -- i don't smoke it, but i smell it. >> if we were running tape we will first hear the truth and then trying to correct the truth. >> on a nearly daily basis. >> you smell it? >> i smell it. >> you smell it as you are breathing it in and out of your lungs. >> right, exactly. my point is if this is about busting people for drugs, why don't they come down to my neighborhood and bust people out at nyu. go to nyu and stand at the gates and you can get all sorts of drug busts. >> it is interesting. jaime, why isn't this a matter for federal judges? why don't we let the police and the neighborhoods be in constant negotiations? if neighborhoods have high crime and they want to lower it and bring in stop and frisk, let them. they can say if you want low crime bring us to your neighborhood. >> i am in favor of negotiations. i like negotiations. this is like a friday issue and there are two competing facts. on one side you have w

ray kelly was police chief when they were doing community policing. it can be done. >> can i add a point? >> go ahead. >> they address that. hey, are we just going into high crime areas which do involve minority populations. even when you control for those variables, those who served within this policy to be weak indicators of the guns they are supposed to be looking for as for whether it stops the program, this is how i would put it. this is a long, 200-page opinion, i have read the majority of it, but not all of it. i would say this ruling ends stop and frisk as we know it. it certainly does that. it says it program is unconstitution unconstitutional violating the bill of rights. does that mean it ends all policing that involves stops? obviously not. that's why you have the body cameras to try to make sure when police are stopping people, which is never going to cease, that program works constitutionally. it's fair to say the policy of mayor bloomberg and ray kelly that's divided new york into two cities, that policy, as we know it, stops today. >>

>> i would not stop doing it, but i think ray kelly was right when he said, look, the obama administration have been a lot more transparent about what's going on here. be straight with the american people, tell them that their e-mails may be captured in this sweep. i think that american people can handle that, what they can't handle is secrets held by the obama administration which they don't trust. >> ray kelly, the new york police commissioner. >> my heart is with jane amary heart is with dan. i distrust the nsa. if you go back and read a story in our newspaper in 2008, what we have learned is entirely consistent with that, if you describe the scope of the way this operation working normally. that and the snowden details have put more detail to it. in specific, the revelations about the court admonishing the nsa suggests there is a mechanism for dealing with error, at least, and potentially with abuse. >> and the administration released the court rulings, declassified them themselves, this is not a leak, so it got the information out there and it does show that there is a process by whic

. >> and why commissioner ray kelly argues it is minorities in danger without stop and frisk. >> the losers in this, if this case is allowed to stand, are people that live in minority communities. 97% of the shooting victims in new york city last year were people of color, black or latino. also issued a warning for why the rest of america should care. >> this happens throughout america in any police jurisdiction. you have to do it. officers have to have the right of inquiry, if they see suspicious behavior. and this case has to be appealed in my judgment because it will be taken as a template and has significant impact in policing throughout america. >> i agree with ray kelly, bolling, what's your thoughts? >> i did a ton of research for real. i had the top ten most popular cities in the country, new york, l.a., chicago, houston, philadelphia, and matched it against whether they have stop and frisk. then matched it further against what their violent crime rates were. on friday, i was in favor of stop and frisk. i have to tell you something, some of the cities with the highest violent

joining us now to talk about it, the new york police department commissioner ray kelly.ommissioner, i noted that your reaction, you said that you found the judge's ruling offensive for one thing. are you going to change anything that you're doing now while this is on appeal? >> well, we're moving forward. mayor bloomberg has directed that. but the judge in this case has indicted the entire police department, almost 36,000 police officers for racial profiling based on what we believe is very flimsy information, flimsy evidence. the plaintiff's expert looked at 4.4 million stops about out of that number of stops over a ten-year period, the expert working for the plaintiff found 6% to be unjustified. the judge in the case looked at 19 stops and they could have been any stops that the plaintiff chose. she found 10 of the 19 stops were constitutionally acceptable. so we believe that the formula that was used which uses census data is fundamentally flawed. >> schieffer: let me just ask you. wham exactly, for people that are not familiar with this, what exactly are you talking

new york police commissioner ray kelly who joins me. lcome to you and congratulations first of all in the largest gun bust in new york's history. 254 illegal guns that you seized this week. i want to come to that later. we'll start with the two appalling gun incidents in america. first this young australian student, here to play baseball, who was targeted by randomly bored teenagers and gunned down to hi death. what's your reaction to that story? >> it is horrific. no question about it. it underscores the fact there's way too many guns abroad in america. we have as many as 300 million guns in this country. just an incredible number. unfortunately, you are going to see events like this take place when you have that number of weapons. we think that we're in need of sensible gun laws, federal laws. the case that you mentioned in new york and we're going to talk about it, but it cries out for federal gun trafficking laws. we simply don't have that. it also cries out for background -- universal background checks on people who want the get gun

but i think that ray kelly was right when he said, look, the -- obama administration could have been lot more transparent about what he is going on here. be straight with the american people. tell them that their e-mails may be captured in this sweep. i think american people can handle that. what they can't handle is secrets held by the obama administration which they don't trust. >> ray kelly, new york police commissioner. >> well, may heart is with mary here and my head is with dan. i distrust the government. i particularly distrust this administration. on the other hand, as far as these new revelations, okay, we now know 75% of the e-mail, go back and read a story, our newspaper, 2008, what we have learned is entirely consistent with that and describe the scope of the way this operation works normally. that and the snowden details only put a little bit more by specific detail to it. in addition, the -- revelations about the court admonishing the msa suggest that there is a mechanism for dealing with error at least and potentially abuse. >> the administration released the court rul

. >> commissioner ray kelly blasted the decision and insisted police officers do not engage in racial profiling. disturbingind most and offensive about this decision is the notion that the nypd engages in racial profiling. recklesslyply untrue. we do not be engaging in racial profiling. is prohibited by law, it is prohibited by our own regulations. we train our officers that they need reasonable suspicion to make a stop, and i can assure you, race is never a reason to conduct a stop. most raciallye and ethnically diverse police department in the world. contrast with some societies, new york city and its police department have focused their crime-fighting efforts to protect the poorest members of our community. who are disproportionately the victims of murder and other violent crime. disturbingly so. , 97% ofpoint, last year all shooting victims were black or hispanic and reside in low- income neighborhoods. of thehousing, with 5% city's population, experiences 20% of the shootings. there were more stops of suspicious activity in neighborhoods with higher crime because that is where th

new york police commissioner ray kelly who joins me. commissioner kelly, welcome to you and congratulations first of all in the largest gun bust in new york's history. the illegal guns you sized this week. we'll start with the two appalling gun incidents in america chasm the first, the young australian student here in america to play baseball who was apparently randomly targeted and gunned down to his death. what do yaw make. >> it was horrific and i think it under scores the fact there is way too many guns abroad in america. we have as many as 300 million guns in this country, and it's just an incredible number. unfortunately, you're going to see events like this take place when you have that number on weapons. we think that we're in need of sensible gun laws, federal laws, the case that you mentioned in new york, we won't talk about it but calls out for gun trafficking laws. we simply don't have that. it also cries out for background, universal background checks on people who want to get guns. i mean, this is common sense but it doesn'

ray kelly and michael bloomberg have repeatedly proven they won't back down, muslim groups have made it clear they won't either. >>> the colombian president says he's ready for peace talks with left wing rebels following the release of a canadian hostage. he had been held captive by the national liberation army since january. that's the smaller guerrilla group. they were demanding his employer stop explorations on land they say was stolen. >>> protests in argentina against shale gas exploration have turned violent. 3,000 demonstrators fought with riot police in front of a congress building. they're angry about a proposed deal between a state-run oil company and u.s. energy giant chevron. critics say the government is not being honest about the environmental risks of shale gas exploration. >>> a massive power blackout in the northeast of brazil has left millions without electricity. eight states were affected including three cities hosting matches in next year's world cup. traffic lights and subway trains stopped working causing major disruption. authorities are blaming wildfires for

>> absolutely, i have indicated i wouldn't keep ray kelly as police commissioner.tting more individuals back to training for police officers, and what constitutes a real stop, and what it means. and quotass, that are attached to stop-and-frisk. them saying you give me five 250s, and four today, and stop that. looking for results, not just stops, looking for legitimate results. and when people are stopped having an officer hand them a reason why. this is the reason you were stopped and at least explain that. there are a number of things that need to be done to eliminate the abuse of stop-and-frisk, to make sure people are no longer profiled. i am committed to that and would make sure as mayor that that happens. >> but mayor, the police commissioner, ray kelly, reacting to the federal judge's opinion seemed to be talking past the judge and each other. the judge is talking constitutional principles. and they are talking practicality. they are saying hey, well, this is a program working well for us, we like the statistical results we're getting from the program, they'r

ray kelly was on "meet the press" this morning, strongly defending the controversial policy. let's listen to what he said and talk about it on the other side. here it is. >> if a program like stop and frisk is abandoned, will people die? >> well, i think no question about it, violent crime will go up. again, this is not a program. this is something that's integral to policing. this happens throughout america. and any police jurisdiction. you have to do it. officers have to have the right of inquiry, if they see some suspicious behavior. >> is there some happy medium, perry, between what the city wants to do and what minority communities and civil libertarians feel infringes on their rights? >> yeah, a political problem here is, ray kelly, blik al bloomberg, very unpopular with a lot of the minority leaders in new york city. i don't think any solution they brought to the table would be viewed as a compromise. i think some of the mayoral candidates talking about replacing him, ultimately, i think any policy where the minority leaders like, 80% of people currently targeted by th

it has to come from both parties. >> it is ironic, kimberly that when ray kelly served under giuliani. he was seen as the champion of community policing. now more and more broader powers and there is this breakdown in the relationship between police and communities. and ironically, back in 2000, kelly actually even agreed. he said, quote, a large reservoir of good will was under construction when i left the police department in 1994. it was called community policing but it was quickly abandoned for tough sounding rhetoric and dubious stop and frisk tactics that sowed of mistrust. my final question to you is essentially, what kinds of measures, clearly, ray kelly is somebody who understands community policing. understands the idea that if you engage the communicate, you build trust rather than create this tension and hostility. so what are the steps that can be taken? in addition to the legal steps to alleviate this? it has to be clear standards against which these race-based nonsuspicion based stops are completely regulated. one of the things the judge found was this wasn't just a cas

[applause] a wreath note on ray kelly, and that is if the mayoral candidates are to be believed, does not seem likely that he will be asked to stay on. i think everyone of them ought to be asked specifically whether or not they would keep ray kelly on as mayor -- he should've been mayor -- >> wishful thinking. >> as police commissioner. beyond that, kelly was a candidate for several high-level post in washington, and apparently it was his stop in for its activity in the endorsement of that program and also his surveillance, radical muslim surveillance program in new york which disqualifies him. i think that that's a great deal about the administration's mindset. it's most unfortunate. question to my storingo who favor the of data records out of the nsa and allowing them to sandy phone companies. stay in the phone companies heard what weight do you give the factor we have such a litigious society that it is very easy for someone to go into judge,nd get a left-wing if you will, who will give a say , on injunction, and thus prevent the immediate availability of that information if it wer

police chief ray kelly are our age that is that is ruling as sweeping as it sounds on that just a moment also despite months of controversy and public outcry the n.s.a.'s biggest supporters want to make an snooping program even bigger what kind of reforms must our government make protect our civil liberties and major league baseball doesn't let the richest teams bribe umpires to widen the strike zone and congress shouldn't let big banks bribe elected representatives to deregulate wall street or on that comparison in tonight's daily take. you need to know this the mainstream media would go insane new york police officers through random people walking down wall street up against the wall and patted them down a gunpoint box to use the wall street journal would flip out if every fiftieth briefcase carrying white guy on madison avenue was slammed to the pavement and forced to empty his pockets by big bulky cups newspapers would warn tourists not to visit new york would you want to walk down a street of a major city worrying that the police people who are supposed to protect you are going to a

the youngest victim of a police shooting that commission mer ray kelly can recall.ooting, if not after each individual shooting, then when should this conversation take place? for more, i'm pleased to be joined by democratic strategist julian epstein and from mayors against illegal guns with me is mark glaze. julian, we're learning now hairy reid says is he almost certain the issue of background checks which as you know failed to advance despite 90% he support amongst americans that it will be revisited next year. why does he think it will be a different time next year to bring a bill before the senate when we know what's just happened? >> well, i think you make a good point. i think actually the experience with the gun vote on background checks makes a very strong case for getting rid of the filibuster rule. but the idea, martin, is to allow the progressive movement, the democratic party and others that care about this issue like mark glaze's very, very fine organization doing brilliant work to build a political movement to make elected officials pay a price for tr

but first, i spoke to new york city police commissioner ray kelly on friday.mmissioner, welcome to "meet the press." >> good to be with you, david. >> i wanted to have you on to have this conversation not just about stop and frisk in new york but about a broader conversation about policing in america, and indeed, this debate about racial profiling that has grown more intense because of the trayvon martin case as well. so, case in point, you've got judge shichein lynn in new york ruling that the stop and frisk policy in new york has violated the constitutional rights of minorities and here's part of her opinion. the city's highest officials, she writes, "have turned a blind eye to the evidence that officers are conducting stops in a racially discriminatory manner. in their zeal to defend a policy they believe to be effective, they have willfully ignored overwhelming proof that the policy of targeting the right people is racially discriminatory and therefore violates the united states constitution." you strongly disagree. why? >> i do strongly disagree. this cas