raymond giudice, defense attorney, atlanta. alex sanchez, defense attorney new york. gloria, she calls him before she calls 911? >> yes. and what's the reason, nancy? that's what we want to know. because one would think one would call 911 first. now, she's probably going to say she's 17 years old and just was scared and confused. but i think anyone, even 17 years old, would know to call 911. >> raymond giudice, i assume you don't, but i see a problem with calling your family before you call 911. >> i'd go with what gloria just said. a 17-year-old young girl, scared. she calls her brother. he's right down the street. she may even know that he's going to respond in an emergency faster than 911 will. i don't see that's any inconsistency. i don't see a problem with it. >> i want to see giudice's face when he says things like that. >> i'll say it again, and -- >> no, please, don't repeat yourself. >> the police have sat on this for eight months. they've talked to this brother before. this didn't just come up today about the phone calls. it's no bombshell. >> no. i didn't s

raymond giudice, atlanta. daniel horowitz, famed attorney out of san francisco. udice, this is a virtual snapshot of little caylee lying there dead or dying in the fetal position in tot mom's car trunk. what more does a jury need, ray? give it your best shot, friend. >> i'll read to you the second e-mail your reporter left out from the fbi that says we cannot draw any conclusions as to what caused this image. it is too speculative. when the prosecution's fbi expert on the stand is saying too speculative, that's a defense lawyer's dream. >> okay. to sue moss. you know, i don't think a jury when they see what the fbi has, when you look at a silhouette, i don't need an fbi lab tech to tell me what i'm seeing. if i see a silhouette of a child in a fetal position and that silhouette is found in the trunk of the mother's car, do you even have to make a closing argument? >> absolutely. this stain can explain who is to blame. don't look at this piece of evidence, alone. look at it in total with all the other evidence. the smell of death in the car, the fact that that hair

susan moss, bill sheaffer, raymond giudice, daniel horowitz.u're there on the scene joining us from orlando. what do you make of it? >> it's very damning. it's another strong piece of circumstantial evidence. the problem with the defense is that every time they pop one of these chains there seems to be another piece of evidence to take its place and reinforce it. and this evidence is consistent with what was found in the trunk, indicating that this is where little caylee's body was. and the other thing is her body in that car, alive or dead, in the trunk, that is significant. that child should not have been in the trunk in any respect. >> daniel horowitz, you've tried so many murder cases as a defense attorney. give me your best shot to defend against this. >> i don't think the forensic evidence is that strong. if the jury already believes she's guilty, then they'll give a lot of credence to it. but really it's an ink blot test. one person's curled-up body in a fetal position could be another person's pizza that just rotted in the trunk. the sc

raymond giudice, defense attorney, atlanta. daniel horowitz, renowned defense attorney, san francisco. i don't need to give you two a tutorial on the@ú law. let's see the lawyers, please, norm. but you both know -- i'll start with you, giudice. that flight can be argued at trial. in many jurisdictions it can't be given as the law to the jury by the judge, but the prosecutor could argue why did croslin skip town? >> well, keep in mind she's neither a suspect nor a defendant nor has she been charged -- >> you're not answering the question -- >> she's not flying from anything. she's not leaving from anything. >> horowitz? >> you've got to have facts. anybody can run away when your husband gets angry at you and the whole world thinks you're guilty. of course she's young and she's upset. we need facts before -- >> it could be argued at trial that flight indicates guilt. that will be the prosecutor's argument, daniel. >> or innocence. that you're so upset that you're innocent that you can't take it. it cuts both ways. >> stunning dev

joining me tonight raymond giudice, a defense attorney out of atlanta.nnifer smetters, attorney out of new york. and randy kessler, defense attorney out of new york. what it says to me, i'm on the outside looking in, as we all are, cops have told the yale university president some information like we've narrowed it down. it's not a student. and the yale university president blabbed it. he blurts it out. and so suddenly the police are going, shh. stop! we're going to start having pressers twice a day. we'll handle anything that's released to the media. now, now that that's pretty obvious to all of us on the panel, if you disagree, raise your hand. let's figure out why they're doing that. ray giudice, why are they trying to throw us or the killer off what's really happening? >> well, i think it's very simple, actually. law enforcement wants to make sure when they bring the correct defendant or defendants to charges, to trial that a good criminal defense lawyer doesn't say, look, law enforcement, you were under pressure from yale. you picked my guy or gal a

. >> raymond giudice, daniel horowitz. it's always s.o.p.nd, lover, ex-husband, ex-lover, boyfriend, then you move out from there. why, daniel? >> first of all, early news reports pointed to sources who blamed the husband. so that's probably where that came from. but you look for people closest to the victim. a motive generally for this kind of murder is passion. there's no other reason to do it. so you look at the ex-husband, the boyfriend, people who might be angry at her or nuts around her and go from there. >> ray giudice, i don't think it's limited to people who are a little bit nuts as horowitz just said. perfectly normal people suddenly nut up and commit a heinous crime. >> daniel has described what i would consider to be the inner ring, then you move to the outer ring. or the next ring. co-employees, what happened at yale, people she may have had an argument over with at the bank over something trivial. >> it's interesting what struck me is the assailant stabs her, then calmly gets back in his car and runs over her. gets into his suv

raymond giudice, defense attorney, atlanta.ncisco. i don't need to give you two a tutorial on the law. let's see the lawyers please, norm. but you both know -- i'll start with you, giudice. that flight can be argued at trial. in many jurisdictions it can't be given as the law to the jury by the judge, but the prosecutor could argue why did croslin skip town? >> well, keep in mind she's neither a suspect nor a defendant nor has she been charged. >> okay. you're not answering the question. horowitz? >> you have to have facts. anybody can run away when your husband gets angry at you and the whole world thinks you're guilty. of course she's young and upset. >> it could be argued at trial that flight indicates guilt. that will be the prosecutor's argument. >> or innocence. that you're so upset and you're innocent that you can't take it. it cuts both ways. ( clicking ) ( laughs, click ) when you hear a click, ( clicking ) you know it's closed and secure. that's why hefty food bags click closed. hefty! hefty! hefty! so you know you've

jennifer smetters, raymond giudice, kathleen mullen. ray giudice, what do you make of this motive for murder? in all my years of prosecuting i've seen plenty of crimes on children. women and children are typically the crime victims. but to cover up your own child molestation, sex with a little boy, a minor? >> it's just heinous, nancy. and in all candor, as we've watched older women have sex with teenage boys and don't get punished, it's such an incredible overreaction, and obviously the most overreaction anyone can do. >> you know, you really hit the nail on the head. no punishment. one adult after the next having underaged sex with little boys. nothing happens. they get a slap on the wrist and off they march. >> that fear of her's is just not true when it happens. >> i'm just sick, kathleen mullen. i am sick. i've always hated crimes on children. like everybody. i'm no different from everybody. but now that i have the twins and they are so helpless, they are so relying on me all day every day, all night every night, except when i'm ri