yes, they went to the big companies like lockheed martin raytheon, i. >> the delays involved, the cost overruns and so one, why do they think working with private companies will be better? >> well, there are some new entrants coming in now, which is interesting. these are not the traditional figures we have grown up with, companies like boeing. these are people who made their money elsewhere. a classic example is a man called eelam mask, who made his fortune on the internet. with the paypal financial system that we have all brought goods and services online with. he has invested a considerable amount of his own money in designing a new rocket that could conceivably take astronauts to the space station. that is the time with it -- that is the type of thing that this panel things if a little more money was pushed in that direction, there might be savings with this of entrepreneurial spirit. >> there is a gap between the shuttle program, which is what we have now, which we are very familiar with, and whatever comes next, so what is going to happen in that gap? >> if you go back to the shu