>> guest: nancy reagan was valuable to ronald reagan.if reagan was a shoe salesman she would have made sure he was the best shoe salesman in the world. she was not a passive little cookie baker but she was a traditionalist. she was elegant. she was beautiful and she also had a very good mind on her shoulders and she had a lot better antenna for detecting people who were using reagan to their benefit than he did. she was good at keeping people away who were not going to help her husband or who would hurt her husband. she famously was involved in the voice of personnel and sacramento when he was governor and more so when he was president. they were a true partnership and one of the great romances of white house history going back to george t and martha washingt. some presidential couples are more estranged than others but they were not only a loving couple but they were a good legal team although her influence was much more subtle than say eleanor roosevelt was. she was deeply effective as the first lady not like roosevelt or some others b

how did the reagan's -- reagans approach parenting?aren: the reagans were so closely bound together, a complete circle unto themselves that there really wasn't any room for any other people. everyone else sort of floated around them on the outside, including her children. it is the painful, tragic collateral damage i think that accompanies their love story. nancy reagan writes in her autobiography that only ever wanted to be was a good wife and mother and i guess i succeeded more at the first than the second. the dedication of her book is to ronny who always understood and to my children who i hope will understand one day. >> i would just explain the lineage and their place in their lives. >> nancy davis, when she meets ronald reagan, hollywood actor, he is coming off a divorce from his worst -- his first wife. it absently devastated him. -- absolutely devastated him. she got bored with him and walked out of the marriage. there are two children in this marriage, there were actually three. they had a daughter, the son, michael who they

ronald reagan is denying that so it is it becomes nancy reagan's job. it's important to her in doing that. she wants to make sure that it has the resources that it needs and she also finds other ways to make sure history remembers ronald reagan in a way that is true to ronald reagan. she does something that i found fascinating which is while on the one hand, conservatives ronald reagan becomes this icon. but she also knows that there is still this perception among the liberal scholars and historians that he was just an actor reading lines other people wrote for him. his value and belief in his own handwriting so you see he begins to publish his diaries, something very few presidents have ever done in keeping real-time diaries so people can see in his own hand at the crucial juncture. he publishes his letters and all the speeches that he was writing as he was getting ready to run for president and you can see in his own hand that these were his thoughts and values she didn't want it to be a monument just to the past but also to point to the future which

nancy reagan was truly the only human being in the will to whom ronald reagan was close. was also just a fierce guardian, i think would be the right word, of his image, of his personal care and safety. she was fearless, i think. and so as a result, she was, in fact, the one truly disinterested observer of all the drama that goes on in a white house. she had but one agenda, which was ronald reagan's well-being and success. she had better instincts about people than he did and sort of a better nose for trouble than he did. so the people in the administration who understood all of this, who recognized her power, people like secretary of state, george schultz or white house chief of staff, later treasury secretary, james baker really understood that she was a very important, a crucial ally to have if you were trying to get ronald reagan on board something. susan: she always said she was never involved in policy but that is really not true, is it? karen: she would say that i just get involved in people issues. but, of course, susan, for anybody who has been in washington more

so now i'm working on two more books, two more books on reagan, reagan is the real true ideology and one is reagan skill as a negotiator. he's under valued in that regard or underappreciated in so was president of the skill and president with tip o'neil and later gorbashec and good reagan stories and i'm glad to be in the ranks. >> what do you mean when you talk about the real ideology, the new book coming out? >> that's a good question, peter. never as conservative as conservatives want them to be. much more pragmatic in outlookld in the world than conservatives wanted him to be. here is the great war your that negotiateded treaties including the reduction, the elimination of thousands of nuclear war heads in western europe but when he ran on the missile cap in 1980, part of the campaign was that we were behind the soviets and weig needed to catch up. we need today catch up in order to get to the negotiating table and to -- and to agree to reduce nuclear armies and he was right, of course, and it only took 8 years really before we saw the winning of the cold war and soviethe union.

as a fan of reagan and someone who worked for reagan. donald trump knocked out some good policies as president of the united states with covid and vaccination, d regulation. there's some issues i take issue with him at. and i take personal behavior it's affected his legacy they address it with was a detour in time and tend to lean toward something more important. but important in a short context in eight nuance context. i do think is an evolution and the united states and right now are to our left ever since george w. bush back in 1988 and his son and clinton brought obama and others is weak and slowly moving to the left where we are moving to the right before that. there is a rhythm and american presidencies and periods i agree with michael the legacy is important and needs to be studied. that's what i try to do. in writing more books on reagan. april 1945 and that is the companion book to the summer of 1941. so much has happened almost everything happens mussolini being taken down by the mob. the bloodied campaign in okinawa island whi

is true to ronald reagan. is suspicious of all the sort of reagan wannabes who want to co-opt him and use his name and uses image for their own agenda and she does something to that i found fascinating which is that while on the one hand although conservative ronald reagan becomes this icon and it's not only in ways that make her comfortable, she resists when they want to knock fdr off the time but she also knows there is still this perception of him among liberals, liberal followers and liberal historians who said that he was you know, that he was just an act are. he was reading lines that other people wrote for him. she decides to put out there his thoughts, his values come his leaves in his own handwriting. so you see her decide to publish his diary, something that vary per view presence had been keeping real-time diaries so that people could see in his own hand what he was thinking at all these crucial junctures. she has -- publishes his letter. at one point all of the speeches that he was writing as he wa

true to ronald reagan. she is suspicious of all the sort of reagan want-to-be's who sort of want to co-opt him and use his name and image for their own agendas. she does something too that i found fascinating, which is that while on the one hand, among conservatives, ronald reagan becomes this icon, noft always in ways -- not always in ways that make her comfortable. she resists when they want to knock fdr off the dime and put ronald reagan on it. but she also knows there's still this perception of him among liberals, liberal scholars, liberal historians, his opponents, that he was, you know -- that he was just an actor, you know. he was reading lines that other people wrote for him. and she decides that the very best truest record is to put out there his thoughts, his values, his beliefs, in his own handwriting. so you see her decide to publish his diaries, you know, something that very few presidents had ever done is keeping real-time diaries so that people can see in his own hand what he was thinking at

true to ronald reagan. is suspicious of all the sort of wannabes that wants to co-opt and use his image for their own agenda and she does something that i found fascinating which is that while on the one hand among conservatives, ronald reagan becomes this icon and not only in ways that make her comfortable. she resists when they want to knock fdr off and put ronald reagan on but she also knows that there is still this perception of him among liberal scholars and historians that he was just an actor reading minds that other people wrote for him and she decides that the truest record is to put out there his thoughts and values and beliefs in his own handwriting so you see herin decide to publish his diaries, something very few presidents have done in keeping real-time diaries so people can see in his own hand what he was thinking in all these crucial junctures. he publishes his letters at one played all the speeches he was writing as he was getting ready to run for president and you can see in his own hand t

nancy reagan had diplomatic hand into.tead we are relying on technology today to take us back in time the daughter, the actress, the partner, the mother, first lady, and then caregiver. before we launch into the meat of the book and tackle so many topics can you share a bit of what inspires you to take this on? what did you go about it and how did you start the book about the sovietst union. >> first of all thank you so much for having me. i toorw look forward to when we can be sitting out there on that beautiful patio at the reagan library where i spent so many, so many wonderful hours. mostly defrosting from the frigidity of the research room at the library. new simon & schuster my publisher was my editor on the book facilitating it was one of my dearest friends was my editor at time magazine. so she came to me in early summer late fall just a few months after mrs. reagan died. and said we love to have biography of her. there was just something about this idea. driving around doing errands and listening to it on c-span r

>> guest: nancy reagan was valuable to ronald reagan.if reagan was a shoe salesman she would have made sure he was the best shoe salesman in the world. she was not a passive little cookie baker but she was a traditionalist. she was elegant. she was beautiful and she also had a very good mind on her shoulders and she had a lot better antenna for detecting people who were using reagan to their benefit than he did. she was good at keeping people away who were not going to help her husband or who would hurt her husband. she famously was involved in the voice of personnel and sacramento when he was governor and more so when he was president. they were a true partnership and one of the great romances of white house history going back to george t and martha washingt. some presidential couples are more estranged than others but they were not only a loving couple but they were a good legal team although her influence was much more subtle than say eleanor roosevelt was. she was deeply effective as the first lady not like roosevelt or some others b

so he's like right here and he sees reagan right about there. >> so where is reagan?agan is right about where you're standing right there. >> so this far away. >> yeah that's. about 50 feet. it is about, they say the 15 feet the they measured it and reagan was 15 feet from hinckley when the shots were fired. if you go to a basketball court, any basketball country in the country, at the free throw line and you look at it, it's just the distance of a free throw. that's how close he was. that's 15 feet. they also got the secret service did a -- there are a lot of great reports they get with. this they interviewed all the agencies who were there and interviews lie witnesses. -- no ended aces, that usually kind of matched up with what the video and pictures showed. and that was helpful. but it was also helpful in to get their heads what was happening. a different view them all too. and i also got some fbi reports, for example there's a great fbi report no one has seen, reagan's fbi interviewed shortly after the shooting, he gave an interview to the fbi agents. that was sea

i mean the written by hand and the reagan library the reagan foundation. let me read these notes but 1991 the 10th anniversary the shooting, you know, reagan came here. for an anniversary event and to to support the brady bill for gun control. was a big deal for reagan to do that and they named the they named the emergency room the ronald reagan institute of emergency medicine. in the 70s the secret service is realizing that the world there are a lot of political assassinations, you know, we lost bobby kennedy in 68 martin luther king kennedy and 63 not a lot changed in their training culture and the 70s a bunch of agents out in la started training better like how to react when they're shot. you know, how to how to react in a split second and they adopt this kind of training to improve how quickly they react so the secret service agents like jerry part tim mccarthy react almost instantaneously the gunfire, but if you look at what happened to kennedy and george wallace in 72, they were debacles. i mean, you know ray kennedy shot in the neck and the driver j

he is right here, he sees reagan. where is reagan.gan is right about where you are standing right there? >> this far away. >> it is 15 feet. they measured it. reagan was 15 feet from hinckley when the shots were fire. you go to a basketball court in the country and you get on the free-throw line and you look at it -- it is the distance of a free throw. that's how close he was. that's 15 feet. i also got -- the secret service did -- there are a lot of great reports they did on this. they interviewed all the agents who were there that day and a lot of witnesses. i was able to get those and learn what everybody said they did. that's what matched up with what the video and the picture showed. it was helpful to get in their heads to understand what was happening. no one has seen reagan's fbi interview shortly after the shooting. he gave an interview to the fbi agents. it was sealed. i got it unsealed. reagan said he was coming out here and saw the reporters but he wasn't going to talk to the press. and you can infer from that that the reas

>> one of the defining moments of the reagan presidency and the reagan's lives occurred march 30, 1981 when a deranged gunman nearly took the life of president reagan that he was leading an event at a washington hotel. it's hard to believe but it's been 40 years since that day. crisis changed everything especially for nancy, nothing can ever happen to my ronnie, my life would be over. while the world didn't know at the time how close he really came to death, ronald reagan spared beliefs there was 70 and higher going forward, he would be dedicated to that. nancy, on the o other hand, was onto product for of all of it, plagued with your something like that could happen again. tell us about that moment, how she learned the news and how she had to carry that with her "afterwards". >> in that chapter, i really did try to take the reader minute by minute i minute of what that day was like for her. the head of her secret service detail he hears over the command center under the oval office. has been a shooting. at time they were told the president's code name, he's fine, he hasn't been hit bu

to ronald reagan. she has suspicious of all the reagan wannabes who want to co-opt him and use his name and image for their own agendas and she does something that i found fascinating which is while on the one hand conservatives ronald reagan becomes this icon not only in ways that make her comfortable. she resists when they want to knock at the art of the line and put ronald reagan on it but she also knows there is still this perception of him among liberals, liberal scholars andng historians, his opponent that he was just an actor reading lines that other people wrote for him she's decides the very best truest record is to put out there is in value, his belief in his own handwriting. so you see her decide to publish his diaries, something that very few presidents had ever done was keeping real-time diaries so people can see in his own hand what he was thinking that all these crucial junctures. she published his letters and at one time all his speeches he was writing as he is getting run ready to run

and reagan was coming out. he said he was coming out here and he saw the reporters, but he wasn't going to talk the press. and you could infer from that that the reason he didn't want to talk to the press, he kind of made some stumbles and they wanted to keep him more on message in that period before. and so he wasn't going to answer any impromptu questions. it just wasn't worth it to him. he also had said if hinckley had only waited -- he was going to get on the -- he was going to climb onto the running board of the limousine, raise himself up and wave to a group of about 200 spectators across the street. his back would have been to the president as he waved. back would have been to hinckley as he waved. but hinckley didn't wait. hinckley started shooting. it is 2:27 p.m. and we know it's 2:27 p.m. because the moment the gunfire ends, a secret service agent calls on the radio to the headquarters -- his secret service headquarters at the white house -- and an agent there looks up at their clock and finds out it

reagan? >> yes. and it is a case of growth. i think things that once bothered her excessively and could really get to her don't anymore, and she takes them in stride. and some of the unfair criticisms and so forth, i guess she kinds treats them now like we used to treat, well, an unfavorable review of your part in a picture. you dusted it off. so as long as the people behind the tickets liked it, that's all that count. >> do you feel that you've grown during the four and a half years? >> yes. yes, i do. but i think, i think anybody who doesn't when they're in this, when they are in this position, is -- i don't know how you could not grow, given all the circumstances, all the people you meet, all the places you go, all the experiences you have. you have to go. it would seem to be. >> mister president, i hate to bring this up, but i think -- what he's going to. >> but i am going to. i believe the it is true that mrs. reagan, standing in the polls, is even higher than yours is right now. >> i can understand that. i didn't vote for

>> well, as a lot of people know by now, that reagan, ronald reagan and nancy reagan were a world unto themselves. they loved each other so deeply, and cared about almost, you know, everything else in relation to how each of them cared about the other. and of course, he wanted her not to worry. she was the where we are in that relationship and it played out in many ways through both terms. she was always trying to take care of him. i could only imagine the shock and fear and anxiety that was in her and of course he would know about. that to be able to come up with that as you layer near death on a trauma bed with is we ... it's unbelievable. it's a testament to the love, first of all, and the second place, he's a very tough guy, you know? a lot of his detractors try to paint him as just a hollywood type, and not very deep. he was extraordinarily thoughtful, and had some prime priorities etched in his heart. first, of course, was nancy, the second was the country. he loved americas so much, and i believe the reason he wanted to walk as he was a cowboy and he loved it. he tried to practi

nixon, shortly after reagan becomes president, wants to find ways to take advantage of reagan's ability. knickson has great admiration for reagan. they had a complicate relationshiped, all politicians do. but nixon said to his son-in-law, ed cox, i have a great mind, reagan has a great gut. this is a guy with trmendous political ability, he can speak to the country, he can rally the country. nixon sees this and he wants to take advantage of it. early in the reagan administration nixon sends a letter to reagan's long time communication adviser couraging the creation of a weekly ten-minute radio talk to allow the president to dominate the monday papers. nixon suggests they do this on sunday. defer tweaks it and the saturday morning radio address is born. it lasted from 1982 all the way to 2018, when trump discontinued it. we have always known reagan started it. we have never known the idea came from a letter from richard nixon. but his real contributions to reagan came on bigger matters of substance. when gorbachev comes to power, nixon meets with gorbachev. he finds this could be a man t

in 2011, i gave a speech at the reagan library. after, we had dinner with nancy reagan. it was difficult for me talking about this day. that was her worst day. we went upstairs and had dinner. she turned to jerry and i still get emotional about this. she said, thank you for giving me my life back. 30 years later. it was so presents for her that moment. you guys can each take a minute, what lessons did you learn? why is this still important for people to think about today? >> i said this jokingly a few minutes ago, but i'm still involved with presidential candidates. the changes that have been made in the security aspect have a daily impact on our lives. how we set up these events. how much earlier people have to get there. i did the first couple of events after the shooting. it was the first time we had ever learned -- use that many people. nobody knew who could pass through per hour. we had great debates over those things. people have to show up a lot earlier. people were there for days and hours ahead of time, knowing that they had to pass through screenings. this had

reagan's book, she knows i'm not gonna get through it. we've tried these things before and originally i had prepared a long list of accomplishments. everything from restoring this grand old house and making us proud of the residents of it and the place itself to 1 million children that say no to drugs because of you and everything that goes between it. but there was a time i wouldn't get through it, so instead, as a person who hasn't allowed you to keep any secrets in the last 40 years, i'm presenting you your gift, from the staff. and letting you know what's inside. it's a wonderful collection of boxes but it is special because it is crammed full of love and hugs you can share and it has a bit of magic to it because no matter how many times you open the box, it will always replenish itself, because we are not going to forget you. we will always be thinking about you and that love will come across for miles and always be in. they're so you can just open it, say yes, give us a hug, and we are there for you. [applause] (applause) naturally,

reagan took the advice. he offered to share the technology with the soviets and it boxed gorbachev in. this maneuver helped the negotiations continue forward and played a role in getting the soviets to agree to the inf treaty in 1987 where an entire class of nuclear weapons were eliminated. with president bush, nixon privately went to china after the tragedy. tianamen would be the death. he reported back to president who was faced with a political crisis in washington. democrats and many republicans wanted to put sanctions if place on the chinese. something the president didn't want to do. something nixon didn't want to see happen. the fact that nixon delivered the message helped diffuse the situation and helped the president out of a deep crisis. to assist the break away republics. he urged him to be braver an support the democracy plooufment in ways he didn't believe prush had done enough to do. he chases policy through his e work with bush and clinton. during this 20-year period he comes to terms with all

reagan. how do you plead guilty? guilty explain it. i mean it isn't it seems to be an extraordinary relationship. how do you explain it? we're happy. but why does it work so well? want to have a crack at that too, so well, i think i think we work at it. we were together. yes. it's gonna a long interview. i don't know how to answer that. i just well, i don't know as far as it from a man standpoint as far as i could say is i think clark gable once. said the line to someone. and so there's nothing more important. been approaching your own doorstep and knowing that someone in the other side of the door is listening for the sound of your footsteps. and do you feel out every day as you come home? yes, and are you sitting there waiting? it is an extraordinary relationship. let me ask you about about camp david. i have the impression that you generally come to camp david without visitors an important guest that you you generally come. just the two of you off by yourselves. that is that correct? yes.

reagan with a gift from the staff. [ applause ] >> if anyone notices mrs.eagan's look, she knows i'm not going to get through it. we've tried these things before. originally i had prepared a long list of accomplishments, everything from restoring this grand old house and making us proud of the residence of it and the place itself to a million children that just say no to drugs because of you and everything that goes between it. but there isn't time and i wouldn't get through it. so instead, as the person who hasn't allowed you to keep any secrets in the last four years, i'm presenting your gift from the staff and letting you know what's inside. it's a box for your collection of boxes but it's crammed full of love and hugs and you can share. and it has a bit of magic to it because no matter how many times you open the box and take out a hug from us, it will always replenish itself because we aren't going to forget you. we'll always be thinking of you and that love will come across the miles and always be in there. you can open it, see us, give us a hug. and

office, reagan is interviewed by tom brokaw. he discusses his childhood, religious beliefs, radio and acting career. this recording comes to us courtesy of the ronald reagan presidential library. >> you've come a long way from that town in illinois, dixon. what did your mother do to shape your life? >> she was a major part. i had a brother a couple of years older than i am. she was probably the kindest human being i have ever known. looking back, i know we were in poverty or pretty close to it all the time, but we didn't know that at the time because the government didn't come around and tell us we were poor. she was always finding someone worse off that we would help. i remember that about her, this kindness. she could be firm. in an even smaller town where i was born of 800 people and we lived across a little park from the railroad station. in those days the biggest treat wasn't the ice cream truck coming around. it was the ice wagon. he'd give chips of ice. the ice wagon pulled up and my older brother took the lead. we starte

he said dutch reagan? and i said, well, my real name is ronald reagan. i had never used the ronald. i liked dutch better. and he said ronald. ronald reagan. hey, that's not bad. i got to keep my own name, ronald reagan. >> who are the actresses you liked playing with in those days? starring with in films that you remember. >> oh, my goodness, the lane sisters had just come on big in pictures. priscilla lane, i was in a picture with betty davis and it was a wonderful experience. such a great actress. and jane bryant. oh, good lord. i'm forgetting some of the names. >> how about ann sheridan? >> oh, yes. pictures with ann sheridan. she was a great gal. just wonderful. >> you watch films, i know, now. you know who the contemporary film stars are. it's very possible that they're going to make a story of ronald reagan. if you could cast that story of ronald reagan, who would you like to play the part of you? >> i would rather they didn't make the story. if i can't play it, i don't know that i want to recommend anyone else. >> do you like current film stars? do you have some favorites amo

he did not know reagan that well. ronald reagan had come from california. ford on capitol hill did not mix that much with others. he did not know ronald reagan that well. reagan had run in 1968 and had come close and had considered himself next in line, it was his turn and ford was in way. ford had come to this in a way he needed to get out of the way and let reagan run. ford had hoped he could craft away to encourage reagan to not run against him. there in march of 1975 flew out to california met with with small talk in hopes of trying to end the software persuade him not to run. mrs. ford writes letter after they left that dinner they were both convinced ronald reagan was going to run. it was a testy relationship forged in that primary. but it was one there were strong indications ronald reagan might be vice president there's a headline a chicago newspaper touting that very thing. they talked about it and thought better of it. ford was supportive of a reagan during four years. i'm sorry it's eight years in the white house. >> great. couple more questions

i was chief of staff for president ronald reagan. ronald reagan was pretty ideological. i was his treasury secretary. it is a question of balance, i think. the commitment to values that i mentioned earlier, james mcgregor burns's definition of leadership is a commitment to values. those values are ideological usually, for the most part. so you have to have some ideological component in your polity and your worldview but it is a question of balance. i think if you are overly ideological you are going to be too strict and too wedded to the ultimate and governing and international negotiations are a matter of balance. you need to be -- there's a conflict in american foreign policy between realists and ideologues. you need realism in foreign policy but also got to have some ideas. ideological fervor, don't know what you mean by that but you better have some ideas. america's foreign-policy is built on idealistic principle. >> last november when you spoke to the national convention of world affairs council and i read david rubenstein's book where he interviews you, would you b

ronald reagan was one of them. and yet he put, he approached it with a smile and long into his presidency people like his style. it was far more conservative. it was still true to some of the foundational matters like free trade and immigration. in internationalism that is now missing from the republican party. when gingrich came along there was a desire to be more militant still. in many ways sought ronald reagan as to pragmatic and they were much more doctrinaire. it was not even about ideas as much as newt gingrich would like to say i think, it was more stylistic. it was more geared toward culture war issues as opposed to economic. for instance ronald reagan antiabortion politics was a big part of his campaign, he never did anything about it. he talked a good game. by that 90s newt gingrich again they were more willing to do it. mainly it was about society. and just a sense it was a beginning of what we came to for russian with donald trump as they were picking on the grievances of the whites even more than it e

administrator reagan was right on. you can already see some of it in the bipartisan infrastructure deal we just passed. here's one example, there is an almost $6 billion amount for replacing thousands of transit vehicles including drug -- including buses. 5% of that funding will go to training of transit workers to maintain and operate those vehicles. also through the department of labor, making sure people building these clean technologies have the skills to be able to do that. there is going to be a lot of deeper investments in the reconciliation bill. that climate core you talked about. that next-generation, this is going to be huge. young people doing americorps now will have the option of doing this kind of service to their nation and the planet. serving lands, waters, helping to build this workforce. a clean energy workforce. it is important to know something the president has hit on, nearly 90% of the jobs created in the infrastructure plan don't require a bachelors degree. 75% of those jobs don't require an ass

reagan, the administrator oe epa. without further ado, i would like to introduce our esteemed moderators, miss rose mckinney james. the ceo and managing principal, and the energy foundation. she is an experienced and accomplished leader, advocate and corporate director with extensive history in the private sector, with over two decades of experience in advocacy and regulatory proceedings relative to renewable and clean energy policy. and community outreach and nevada and the u.s.. >> thank you, tara. i am excited to be here. and, i appreciate you and the leadership. i am delighted to join two remarkable leaders for an important conversation on climate, a topic both timely and urgent in the subject of great interest to the audience. please help me welcome secretary granholm and administrator reagan. i'm excited to have you, and delighted to say that our secretary is a clean energy trailblazer an influential leader, becoming just the second woman to lead the u.s. department of energy. prior to that, she was the first wo

ronald reagan was pretty ideological. i was his treasury secretary. and so it's a question of balance. i think. you you the commitment to values that i mentioned earlier when james mcgregor burns a definition of leadership is a commitment to values and those values or ideological. usually to the most part and so you you have to have some ideological component in your policy and your worldview. but it's a question about i think if you're overly ideological you're going to be too strict and to wedded to the ultimate and governing and international negotiations even for that matter are a matter of balance. you need the ideological you need to be you know, there's a there's a conflict in american foreign policy for instance. well known between realists and idealists. you gotta have some realism in your foreign policy, but she also got to have some idealism now ideological fur. i don't know exactly what you mean by that but you better have some idealism and our foreign policy americans foreign policy is built on on idealistic principle. well, i heard you l