joining me is the director of "the black godfather," filmmaker and executive reggie hudlin.on. >> thank you for having me. >> the significance of clarence avant cannot be overstated. every cultural icon, not only in black music but in music, has really had the behind-the-scenes help, counsel, or push by clarence avant and many americans don't know who he is until this film, but everyone in american culture and politics know exactly who he is and have gone there more than once, including me. >> absolutely. i think one of the things that stuns people when they see the film is how has he been shaping pop culture for 50 years being involved in so many things i love in music n movies and sports and politics. but we don't know who he is. and it's a mystery. and the answer is he didn't want you to know who he is because there's a power to fame, but sometimes there's a power to being behind the scenes not looking for fame but don't looking to make a difference. >> now, i knew people in entertainment all of my life, even though my work was in civil rights and politics. i mean, i was