when it comes to public education reggie shaw turns out to be a hero. what a redemption.i don't want to give the book away. >> host: it's very powerful. >> guest: he deserves for whatever tragedy he caused, and it was serious and all the terrible, how he felt and how we deserve to feel he has redeemed himself like no one i've ever seen and it's a story worth reading. so public education. reggie speaks to audiences. loftus -- lots of victims families. >> host: what kind of an impact will that have? >> guest: like madd. it will also have an impact on legislators. i want to be careful not to be too prescriptive but on the tough loss side i think what i'm hearing from public safety advocates is unless laws are tougher and less people really feel afraid that they are in jeopardy where not going to see a reconciliation between attitude and behavior. they won't come together until people feel like it's more than a slap on the wrist. what does that translate to again? i do want to be too prescriptive but there are solutions in the book and i think legislators coupled with public

the last time reggie shaw serves across the divider he clipped a saturn carrying two fine family men and rocket scientist -- the real thing -- building boosters for the next space shuttle. they spin across the road and they are hit by the farrier, broadsided, and the two men in the saturn are killed instantly. >> it is quite a tragedy. >> quite a tragedy. >> but of course as we are talking about this it is an example of so much more. let's get into what this represents for instance. one of the most amazing reasons and it might have been why you came to write the book and you can tell us about that but one of it most amazing issues related to this is why do people do this? you know we can talk about do they know the risk? in 2006 arguments to and from were coming in. i guess we can assume many people have an understanding of the dangers. let's talk about why we do such a self destructivdestructive. >> reggie was texting. there was a sherlock holmeshunt and they discover after 18 years of looking that he had text 11 times in the minutes and seconds around the crash. you have the first

know from myself power raise my kids that was a big part coupled with the irresistible story with reggie shaw host: anything in particular can even be at peace of the research and i know you are surprised of the time but was there anything the surprises you the most about this issue that changes their behavior at all? and to push that further did you used to texting and drive? >> the short answer is i feel like a politician because i don't remember when i first got my phone capable of texting but i suspect not because i could not text by the timing was reporting and by then it was no bleeping way will i do that. i don't think i did but i did talk on the phone and i stopped doing that the fund is it in the middle and does not get answered but what surprised me the most it was not the science honestly you have done some great journalism. what surprised me the most was the outpouring from the characters of this book the rock, deep candor honesty and sharing from the widows of the men jim and keefe come on some level this book is built on grief. what richie's prosecutors and victims' advocates op