there's an intersection, but it's not quite -- it's not something the immigrants ren gaged in directly to the same extent. so churches encouraged slowly, gradually, and in limited ways immigrants to engage in civic activity as well. the same study of churches in providence found that by the 1910s you had catholic groups that were actually staging voter registration drives, through the church, essentially, or through the catholic network. so church activity, religious activity could also morph into civic activity amongst these groups. then there's another dimension of this which is the work that civic groups did in immigrant communities. there was, and this is again something that there are clear parallels to what was going on in europe. the stuff that we talked about on tuesday where you have sports clubs, you have singing societies, you have gymnastics clubs, you have all kinds of civic organizations that are organizing in ethnic communities, are very ethnic in their character but are also avenues towards more civic participation. my favorite example of this, really the best example p