renato told you the story? >> he was. >> did mr. engle correct or disagree with any part of the story for mr. renato? >> mr. engle did not. correct or disagree with any part of the story. >> did mr. engle or mr. renato ever tell you that when mr. varnadoe had said was untrue? >> neither mr. ronaldo nor mr. engle told me ever that it was untrue. >> but now that officer with the tea metropolitan police department who is right there in the motorcade, a firsthand witness, is corroborating details of what kathy hutchinson told the committee. and we have new reporting tonight, which we are going to bring in just a moment, on the question or loss or erased secret service text messages from january 5th and january 6th. i want to get right to that recording now. first, on cnn, from jamie and gayle and amy gray any greer, d.c. police officer to talk to the january 6th committee is corroborating details of what happened in the presidents suv when he tried to go to the capitol after his rally. elie honig and interview caper both here, cnn's eva

what about you, renato, what will you be watching for? >> i am really interested to hear what the chairman just talked about, because i think one thing that has been a missing piece, so far, which it sounds like the committee has, are links between the violent insurrectionist groups, and those in the trump orbit. we know that some of the folks in trump's orbit have their own criminal liability, people like giuliani, clark or eastman, for example, if you actually have coordination of the mob that was attacking the capitol, by those within trump's orbit, i would have to think that would potentially generate exposure for them and could potentially move forward the investigation and a serious way. >> renato, norm, thank you both so much for offering your expertise and sharing it with us. 11:00 a.m. tomorrow, special coverage to hear new details about what happened by the white house on january 6th, it all begins then. on sunday, do not forget to tune into the premier of the cnn special report, steve bannon, divided we fall which airs right he

>> i'll say again that we will hold accountable anyone who is criminally responsible. >> renato, what do you hear there? do you hear the kind of boilerplate general vague answer of, you know, we'll follow the facts where they lead, or do you hear something significant in that answer from the a.g.? >> i do hear something significant, and i actually thought, victor, i thought he was really going as far as he could possibly go in that interview to try to push back against concerns that the public has that the department of justice is giving trump a free pass or is not investigating this matter, and i thought it was actually necessary after some recent reporting that really suggested the doj was behind the congressional committee, that they were not even discussing the issue of trump's liability. i thought his pushback on that was significant. lester holt was asking, i thought, a fair question, which is, well, could the timing of an announcement impact things. and garland could have given a boilerplate answer there. he said we are going to hold him accountable. he didn't say him, but he w

renato, let's shift gears a bit and look ahead based on what develop this week. a georgia grand jury issuing subpoenas to some high-profile names in the trump world. senator lindsey graham, rudy giuliani and some others. part of his legal team and to that criminal probe alleging he interfered in the states 2020 election. this appears to be at least in my incessant, the most significant step yet taken in that investigation to target trump's inner circle. one of these latest subpoenas tell you about the scope and direction of that investigation or my hyping up a little too much? >> i don't think so it all. i actually think that whenever we heard publicly from the fulton county da, she seems aggressive, she seems committed to push this investigation forward. these are all indications as far as i can tell that she's probably committing herself. she's elected confer official, she has an incentive to tell the public, ultimately her voters what she intends to hang her hat on. i think she thinks there is something to this and i think she's going to pursue the matter aggr

. ♪ ♪ >> renato ibarra dispara, lo que se mete!

or renato or mr. engle told me ever that it was untrue. >> we're joined now as cnn congressional correspondent ryan angles with the new reporting. do we know who this witnesses and what exactly they're saying that allegedly backs up cast the hutchinson's testimony? >> we don't have a lot of specifics right now, anderson, but our reporters jamie angle and andy greer were able to learn that there was a metropolitan police department police officer, this is someone working for the washington d.c. police force, that was part of the motorcade that did speak to the january 6th select committee, and was able to corroborate at least a little bit about donald trump's position and his attitude on that day of january 6th. specifically, that he was angry and had the desire to go to the capitol on that day. this wouldn't have been an officer that would've been specifically in the presidential suv that was in dispute right now, but someone that was part of that group of vehicles that would've taken the president fr

what should the committee's next move be, renato?> if i was the committee, i would try to seek bannon's testimony in private and full production of documents from bannon before the trial date, which is literally a week from today. because they have leverage right now. if he doesn't comply before the trial, that could be used against him. at trial and so really he could put up or shut up, so to speak and i think this is the smart way for the committee to determine what bannon is willing to do -- >> well, if he does testify before the committee, could that have any effect on the criminal contempt case? >> the judge says the bannon team can't use that in the trial. that's what he ruled today as you pointed out. he pretty much lost entirely at trial -- or in the courtroom today. however, a smart defense attorney could try to sneak in the fact that he is now cooperating or find a way to get that before the jury could potentially influence things no matter what, it would definitely influence the judge's sentence if bannon did come around >

cipollone >> i think this was an agreement that made a lot of sense from both sides >> renato, there'sion and senator graham challenging the subpoena what do you make of the defense that he's mounting >> i don't think there appears a valid basis for him to have enz. >> rent appears that he's a witness in this cthe names we've heard alr the january 6th hearings the committee ultimately may try to pursue additional testimony from mr. cipollone >> i think this was an agreement that made a lot of sense from both sides >> renato, there's the criminal investigation and senator graham challenging the subpoena what do you make of the defense that he's mounting >> i don't think there appears a valid basis for him to have a subpoena he wants to spend a lot of money and time, and given that it appears that he's a witness in this case and that he's not the target suggests to me that he's willing to expend significant resources just to avoid appearing that he is cooperating with an investigation of the former president >> so he can delay it, but can he stop it >> i don't think he will >> renato mar

renato told you this story? >> he was. >> did mr. engel correct or disagree with any part of this story from mr. ornato? >> he did not. >> did they after that tell you what mr. ornato had just said was untrue? >> neither mr. ornato nor mr. engel ever told me it was untrue. >> so there's new reporting on that tonight as well as the apparent attempt to influence ms. hutchinson's testimony. cnn's ryan nobles is up on capitol hill for was more. what more are you learning about that alleged incident in the presidential suv back on january 6th? >> reporter: well, of course if you know that this is in dispute because soon after hutchinson's testimony, officials from the secret service started coming out saying they were prepared to refute part of what she had to say and they also followed up by saying both tony and bobby, the two agents in question would will willing to testify under oath and dispute part of what she said, specifically, that the former president made an effort to grab ahold of the steering wheel and there was some sort of p

cipollone i think this was an agreement that made a lot of sense from both sides >> renato, there's thestigation and senator graham challenging the subpoena what do you make of the defense that he's mounting >> i don't think there appears a valid basis for him to have a subpoena he wants to spend a lot of money and time, and given that it appears that he's a witness in this case and that he's not the target suggests to me that he's willing to expend significant resources just to avoid appearing that he is cooperating with an investigation of the former president >> so he can delay it, but can he stop it >> i don't think he will >> renato mariotti thanks a lotudge holding a real estate giant in contempt for >>> a new york judge holding a real estate giant in contempt for failing to turnover evidence relating to the trump organization cushman and wakefield provided appraisals for three trump-owned properties they're at the center of the investigation by the new york attorney general's office. a judge has now ruled that the real estate firm has only partially complied with the new york a.g

let's go back to renato now. out of all the testimony and evidence presented yesterday, what would the doj most likely latch onto >> they would latch onto the pieces of testimony we heard that reveal donald trump's motives to his intent and so on. for example, kayleigh mcenany coming in and saying he did not want the word "peaceful" in that tweet. the testimony of a metropolitan police officer that donald trump wanted to go back onto the scene. the testimony we heard a moment ago from a capitol police officer or, excuse me, a white house security officer that was disguised saying that, you know, donald trump wanted to go back to the capitol and that would have turned a rally into something else i also would say what was missing is some of, for example, we heard some objected to testimony regarding executive privilege and we also didn't hear from mark meadows testimony that i think the doj could obtain via a grand jury subpoena. >> a lot of data that this committee likely has no access to, but when the doj subpoen

analysis on all of this tonight by renato marioty.lege issues limit how much he can share there? >> oh, absolutely. in fact, one thing they think is important to note here is this is by an agreement with the committee. it's a savvy move by the committee whenever a potential witness has privilege issues it's always a smart idea to just reach an agreement with them rather than trying to fight all of that out. what that means is that the testimony will be limited to certain topics there have been some reports that it will be primarily focused on conversations with third parties and people like clark and eastman and some of the names we've heard already in the january 6th hearings the committee ultimately may try to pursue additional testimony from mr. cipollone >> i think this was an agreement that made a lot of sense from both sides >> renato, there's the criminal investigation and senator graham challenging the subpoena what do you make of the defense that he's mounting >> i don't think there appears a valid basis for him to have a sub

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renato, former federal prosecutor, thank you very much. >> thank you. ♪ judy: pope francis traveled toy to meet with canada's prime minister and its first indigenous governor general. it's part of his weeklong tour of canada where he is apologizing for the catholic church's role in running residential schools, very similar to ones across the united states, that tried to eradicate native cultures. while the pope's apology was welcomed, as william brangham reports, indigenous leaders and former students say it's only the first step toward healing a painful past. [indigenous chanting] william: where the catholic church once exploited and denigrated indigenous culture, indigenous leaders this week offered the pope a symbol of that culture. survivors of canada's catholic boarding schools, now grown and gray, carried a red cloth with the names of more than 4000 indigenous students who died or disappeared in those places. in the native community, the roman catholic leader issued a historical apology. >> i am here because the first step of my penitential pilgrimage among you is that of again a

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renato told the story to me, he motioned towards hisclavicles. >> and was mr. engel in the room when mr. orinato tell you this story? >> he was. >> did mr. engel correct or disagree with any part of the story? >> he did not. >> did mr. engel or mr. orinato ever after that tell you what mr. engel had said was untrue. >> either ever told me it was untrue. >> a secret service agent now denies that trump grabbed the steering wheel or an agent, but cnn did speak to two secret service staffers who said that for more than a year similar stories had been circulating inside the agency about trump's behavior before and on january 6, this is as cnn also learns the u.s. secret service erased text messages from the day before and on the day of the insurrection. deleted after investigators requested them according to the inspector general, an allegation the secret service denies. and the january 6 committee member adam kinzinger tells the "wall street journal" the committee is still weigh ing ovr asking donald trump to testify and whether to subpoena mike pence or request a

renato, i want to start with you. you prosecuted mafia cases as a federal prosecutor. exactly how close of an argument, how strong of an argument could be made that we have reached witness tampering element for that federal statute? >> it is interesting, i do think that one thing i will say that is interesting here, the structure what this person is, the person that meadows was directing to contact her, she was saying you know what the party line is, you know what trump world wants you to say, and you need to stick to the party line. and, of course, she had a lawyer who was being provided to her for a period of time who was also going to help her stay with the party line. really wasn't until she got her own attorney that she felt the freedom to go to a different path. along that thing, we actually have some sound of michael cohen come out to play for you quickly. and i will ask you some questions on the other side of that. >> i was looking at the text messages and the communications that liz cheney put up in the words are all the same, your loved right, you are in our

. >> renato, here is what john would, is a former senior investigative counsel for the january six committee, had to say about sarah matthews on this network earlier this week. watch. >> i expect her to be a very credible witness. she's very young but she had an important role within the white house. i lead the interview as you said, conducted by the staff and i found her to be very credible, so i think she's going to help fill in some of the gaps in the testimony that you've heard so far and i think it really gain here focus on the days leading up to january six and then really the minute by minute of january six itself. it may not be as explosive as what we heard from cassidy hutchinson, but each of these hearings i think is going to provide additional information at the american people have not heard yet. >> our nada, how is matthews live testimony helped the committee make their case? >> i think an important way is by corroborating other witnesses. it's important to note that after miss hutchinson testified, we had a lot of cries from the republicans, not only that her testimony was hear

joining me now to discuss is former federal prosecutor renato mariotti. liz cheney says the justice department doesn't have to wait for the committee to make a criminal referral. i'm wondering how significant are potential criminal referrals from this committee? and will the doj more likely to pursue criminal charges if they get them from the committee? >> so, ordinarily what i would say is the opposite. ordinarily what i would say is getting a referral from congress in a high-profile case like this where they're already taking a look at it would just make, for example, would make things seem more political, would potentially make any decision they are make would seem they are doing it at congress' behest. that said, in this circumstance it really does seem like the committee is going ahead of congress. they are pushing this forward faster -- excuse me, the committee is going ahead of the doj. doj, as far as i can tell, was not as aggressively pursuing this until the committee was coming forward with some of these interviews. it may very well be that the

and the secret service has said the two agents in question, tony ornato and bobby renato will be willing to testify about their experience. the one thing that no one disputes is that donald trump was mad and that he wanted to go to the capitol on that day, which may be among the most serious things the committee is looking into. jim. >> ryan, thanks so much. joining me now is cnn senior legal chris christie and former u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york, elie honig. someone working on behalf of mark meadows applied pressure on cassidy hutchinson or at least attempted to apply pressure on her ahead of her testimony using phrases like he knows you're loyal, do the right thing, you're on the team. a meadows spokesman denies this. of course if they had nothing to worry about in all of this, if they didn't think cassidy hutchinson was very important in the grand scheme of things, her story doesn't add up, why are they putting pressure on her? >> first of all, in my view those statements that you just said are witness tampering. you don't have to say i hereby tamper with thee.

renato, we have to leave the conversation there.always, appreciate your time. >> thank you. >> of course. >>> still to come this morning, fresh off a successful trip to europe, president biden is back state side dealing with the decisions made by the supreme court and floundering approval ratings. >>> plus, the fallout from the roe v. wade reversal has many worried that ivf could be the next target. >>> and a cnn exclusive, brittney griner's wife speaks out as the wnba star's trial begins in russia. why she says the u.s. government has to do more to bring griner home. this whole thing wouldn't be a thing. yeah, dad! i don't want to deal with this. oh, you brought your luggage e to the airport. that's adorable. with shipgo shipping your luggage before you fly you'll never have to wait around here again. like ever. that can't be comfortable though. shipgo.com the smart, fast, easy way to travel. (vo) get verizon business unlimited from the network businesses rely on. like manny. event planning with our best plan ever. (manny) yeah, th

i think there's -- >> renato -- sorry.ur thought. >> i was just going to say there's no hard and fast rule regarding days. there's no rule that says there's a 30-day rule, a 60-day rule, a 90-day rule but generally it's understood that as you get closer to an election, the concern about what i will call an appearance issue, that the justice department could appear to be trying to influence an election goes up and i think prosecutors are rightfully concerned at that point about whether or not the department has an appearance of making a politically motivated prosecution. >> what about a scenario where someone's name is about to appear on the ballot and justice know that he or she is dirty with regard to ethical improprieties they know it, they have the evidence, they're putting the case together. shouldn't they bring it when they have it because otherwise the public will be nonthe wiser and maybe that person gets elected? >> that's a very challenging situation. i think that, you know, prosecutors have to weigh. i think the

renato had recounted the story to me, he had motioned towards his clavicles. >> cnn learning that accounts of an angry trump demanding to go to the capitol over secret service objections and lunging forward in the suv started circulating among agents in the months after january 6th. cnn has learned that agent tony orr ornato has met with the committee on two occasions. some say his versions of events on that day were murky. >> mr. ornato did not have as clear of memories from this period of time as i would say ms. hutchinson did. >> reporter: meanwhile, the work of the committee was front and center in wyoming. >> the only time that the j6 situation ever comes up is when people talk about how unfair this entire committee is. >> reporter: vice chair liz cheney's opponent promoting conspiracy theories about the election results, while cheney accused hagaman of doing trump's bidding. >> she knows it wasn't stolen. i think she can't say that it wasn't stolen because she's completely beholden to donald trump. and if she says it wasn't stolen, he will not support her. >> joining me now cnn law e

to help us understand what all this could mean, i'm joined by former federal prosecutor renato mariottiback. based on everything you have read, what does it appear to you that the justice department is looking at with regard to former president trump? >> there was a scheme that was hashed, which i think has been referred to in the media as th fake elector scheme, by which individuals who were not actually chosen by their states as the electors for the electoral college were drafted and signed certificates that were submitted to the united states senate, purporting to be the electors of the state. there have been recent news reports that some of the attorneys that were preparing those materials actually used the term "fake elector" in their email conversations. my understanding, based on what reports have shown, is the justice department thinks that the fake elector scheme constitutes a crime, and they are investigating the actions and statements of former president trump with his advisers regarding the implementation of that scheme in the united states senate, particularly as it relates

of course, we know that both angle and renato of very informal conversations with the committee, the to come back and have a full on the record, under oath testimony, that has not been scheduled yet. but anderson, part of why the committee is talking about hearings going into september and beyond, is because they are still collecting evidence, they are still getting to the bottom of what happened on january 6th, and the role the secret service played is a major part of that next level of this investigation. >> especially, ryan, after learning tonight, you have on the one hand, vice presidents spence's secret service detail asking people in the white house to call their families in case they don't make it out. and screaming on the radios in fear for their lives, and the lives of the pence's, and on the other hand, you have the trump detail who are now lawyering up. that's extraordinary. >> yeah. >> there's no doubt about that anderson. a level of inconsistency between the details and their protectees and the role they could possibly play, that's all part of what the committee is tryin

officer renato anaya is here where it is great to have you with us.owing you, that you they had to pull over. >> i want to say thank you for having me. it all happened so fast. towards the end after the baby was delivered it was an exciting moment. >> how did they flagged down initially? >> the driver -- the father of the baby was driving behind us. he was flashing his headlights and blowing the horn trying to get our attention. we saw that, we pulled over and he pulled next to us when he told us that he needed an escort to a hospital. he started to follow us and he pulled into a gas station. we saw that i pulled back around and we deliver the baby. >> dana: have you ever delivered a baby? >> never come a first time. >> dana: do you have your own children? >> yes. i think that's where i learned. i was there for all three births. that's where pretty much experience the delivering of a baby. >> i can imagine how grateful the parents where. did you have a chance to talk to them? >> not yet. i was just following up making sure the baby and the mother were

this employee told us that mr renato said the president was, quote, i rate when he was refused to becar? no. the only description i received was that— the only description i received was that the _ the only description i received was that the president - the only description i received was that the president was - was that the president was upset _ was that the president was upset and _ was that the president was upset and was _ was that the president was upset and was adamant. was that the president was i upset and was adamant about going — upset and was adamant about going to — upset and was adamant about going to the _ upset and was adamant about going to the capitol— upset and was adamant about going to the capitol and - upset and was adamant about going to the capitol and there was a — going to the capitol and there was a heated _ going to the capitol and there was a heated discussion - going to the capitol and there | was a heated discussion about that — was a heated discussion about that. �* , ., was a heated discussion about that. �* i. ., that. and when you say heated is tha