andrew mccabe and renato, stay with me. there are new developments in what is now a criminal investigation into presidential records and top secret documents found at donald trump's florida home. cnn has learned that the fbi interviewed two senior trump officials, one of them is the former white house counsel pat cipollone and the other deputy patrick philbin. trump designated both men to deal with his presidential records. kaitlan collins has been all over this. they are the two most senior former trump officials we know of who have been interviewed by the fbi. >> that's right, alex. cnn has confirmed the fbi spoke to both pat cipollone and patrick philbin earlier this year. cipollone and philbin were top lawyers in the white house but when the administration ended they became among the central people appointed to handle trump's interactions with the national archives and the work of his administration when they needed to turn over federal records that were no longer his since he became a private citizen. in the spring, th

joining me now is renato mariotti, a former prosecutor, legal affairs commentator and host of the onodcast. it is good to have you with us. some people are looking at this and saying he is not cooperating in the agreement of pleading guilty, what does this plea mean for the larger case against the trump organization? >> i think the trump organization is basically that right going to be found guilty here. because an organization like that is nothing but the officers, police, et cetera and mr. weisselberg is a chief financial officer and if he takes the stand this is i committed fraud and so the disorganization, i think that bears the organization, and i think that's what prosecutors will look to do. >> what do you think that the actual sentence of weisselberg sentence? as i mentioned, five months in prison, five years under probation, a payment of nearly two billion dollars for failing to pay taxes. does the punishment fit the crime or not enough? >> that's an interesting question. i would say, i was a federal prosecutor for years. i prosecuted a lot of white collar crime. one frustra

let me bring back in john brennen and renato mariotti.thing materially different. it was bad enough we had the january 6th insurrection in which the president of the united states attempted to overthrow the government using a violent mob basically as his battering ram against congress. it's quite another thing when we find out that same person has been retaining national security information in his private custody at his house and refusing to give it back, and that even when he gave some of it back he still kept things and retained things to the point where he had to have his place searched by the fbi. does it give you that same even worse pit in the stomach feeling as an intelligence professional? >> well, it does, joy, and it just underscores that donald trump never should have been entrusted with the office of the presidency and certainly never should be in the future again. his arrogance and his feelings that he's above the law has been reckless, irresponsible, and has blatantly disregarded the responsibilities of that office. and so

renato, thanks the doj says it's aware of this motion and it will file its response in court. how do you think they'll counter this >> well, i actually think that a lot of the arguments that are made in this are made for pr value or largely made to get the president's story out there. i think the special master is really the meat of this, the part of it that actually has some potential legal significance and we'll see whata happens. one problem may be for the former president is this is late in the game. the fbi has now had these documents for a couple of weeks. over two weeks it may actually already have gone through all of the documents and may be in the hands of the prosecution's team which may make the special master moot at this point. and some of their arguments are unusual.ple, arguing arguing, for example, executive privilege issues when the executive is the branch of government seizing this. i think this is a bit of an uphill battle for the trump camp it's achieved its purpose of getting their story out there. >> renato, even if a special master is named, the investig

they've been cooperating, it's absolutely clear that the prosecutors believe that is not true. >> renatoat do you make of the arguments from the former president that he declassified this material and that he would have handed it over if only doj had asked for it? >> well, the latter argument i think is verifiably false. the latter argument is problematic for him. i don't think that -- i think that defense won't -- we won't hear that repeated over time because as evan mentioned a moment ago, the government actually went to the former president and his team. they asked for this information. he was served with a subpoena. and obviously they didn't provide all of it because if they did, they would have had -- the government would have had no reason to obtain a search warrant. and when they executed that search warrant, they wouldn't have found anything. so i think certainly they did ask for it and they didn't get what they needed. now, as to this declassification thing, i mean, we heard all sorts of fairly fanciful ideas earlier, every time he took something up to the bedroom, it was automa

we also want to bring in renato mariotti, a former federal prosecutor renato, what stood out to you from the statutes that were listed in the search warrant >> i actually think the statute that you referred to as an obstruction statute is very interesting. we don't know exactly what the fbi and doj had in mind there. however, ordinarily what i would say is that statute is used to charge folks who are actually trying to hide documents or change or alter documents in order to impede a federal investigation. that's how i charge the statute when i was a prosecutor. that's how i have seen it in private practice they may be taking a broader reading here, focused primarily on just getting the documents back we don't know, but it's very interesting. >> there's also been a lot of ink spilled and air time spent on the issue of the espionage act. tell us how broad that is and what we can actually deduce from that >> a great question because that is a very broad statute. it does not necessarily mean that the doj thinks that the former president engaged in anything resembling espionage as we usually

let's now bring in renato mariotti, a former prosecutor. renato, what does it mean to be a target in a state case >> so that is a very specific term of art in criminal law. it means that the prosecutors are likely to indict mr. giuliani so we often hear the term subject or target run around many people can be a subject of a case that means they're being looked at a target means something very specific that means mr. giuliani should be waiting for indictment. >> meanwhile, senator graham ordered to testify, but he's appealing to a higher court. what is the outcome he is hoping for and how likely is that to happen >> i think the outcome that he's realistically hoping for is to delay. take some time off the clock, so to speak, and show to the former president that he's being loyal and doing whatever he can to resist this. i don't realistically think that he's going to get out of testifying before a grand jury >> renato mariotti, thanks to you as always. former trump organization cfo allen weisselberg expected to plead guilty to criminal charge

. >>> renato, this by all accounts was a dramatic step by the doj, but do >> let's turn now to mariano r renato now this, by all accounts, was a dramatic step by the doj but does the possibility of mishandled classified documents warrant all of this? or could there be far more to it than that? >> i think there's definitely more to it than just the mishandling of classified documents, shep. one of a few things has happened here either there is some plus factor, in other words, like willfully transferring classified material to a third party, destroying documents in some way, or, perhaps, you know, misusing them, leaving them in a spot where they could be captured by a foreign adversary, something along those lines. also -- there's also, i think, a possibility where, for example, you know, given those negotiations with the justice department, perhaps his attorneys made representations that the justice department could later determine were false about the documents there, and they were concerned about the safety of those documents as a result >> republicans and even some democrats are ask

let's turn to renato mariotti, former federal prosecutor. i detailed the news over cnbc the past couple weeks that the justice department is investigating the activities of january 6th, that as part of that investigation not as a target but that the former president's inner circle at least was certainly part of that investigation. we don't know the context of whatever's happening now at mar-a-lago we only know what the former president has said we've gotten no comment despite attempts from the fbi. your thoughts on this as we know it >> well, we know a few things for sure, shep assuming that it's true, what the former president is saying is true regarding a raid in mar-a-lago and there have been a number of reports regarding this, it means a federal judge has signed a search warrant, which indicates that a judge believed that there was good reason to believe that a crime was committed. that's what probable cause means and that evidence exists in mar-a-lago the judge had to believe there's good reason to believe evidence existed there. i don'

iba a haber goles y por montones al minuto iba a venir esta mano de renato lo venía cobrando entoncesde le pegaba así para poner el 41 final con el que madrid lo ganó. vamos a la liga premier donde dejo del mexicano el wolverhampton a pesar de la del otro frente el tottenham por un par de minutos vamos a ver las acciones a ir estadio flamante iba a caer en este estilo de esquina donde pérez viva tocará primer palo y hurricanes para mandarla a guardar no hay fuera de lugar y con esto el recorte goles con 185 demás el tottenham marcha segundo del torneo vamos al partido del arsenal. una gran jugada individual y lo mandaba a wanda para el uno a cero después al minuto 10 se iba a meter hacia la cocina y este r2 hacer del arsenal y para rematar iba a venir un centro por derecha y el francés de 21 años demandaba un golazo para tres a cero mañana tenemos nosotros de la premier league aquí por la pantalla mientras que ahí está la invitación para que nos acompañe en telemundo deportes. >>> en y también le contamos que el condado san mateo la organización hombre un programa de información profe

all of this is extremely dangerous and as renato just said, you can't declassify those things without warning the people who might be affected , an agent somewhere or a program somewhere in another country, that needs to be pulled out or safeguarded, so all of that is critically important whenever you declassify these kind of documents. >> general, the washington post did report that these documents, some of them, pertain to nuclear weapons so is the fear here that if they are in an insecure location at a hotel, that the iranians or the chinese could get their hands on them, is that the main concern? >> well, it is, it's one of the concerns, alex but what i would say is it doesn't matter what they are about. you know, nuclear weapons, yeah, that gets everybody fired up and saying oh my gosh, we are going to lose our nuclear secrets but truthfully any document that is stamped sci, has those kinds of secrets on any kind of programs or method. you know, if i can say, i've unfortunately, controlled these kind of programs and units that i commanded and had to discipline a few soldiers who

but, renato, if this is about u.s. nuclear security or another country's nuclear security, does that have any effect on the types of criminal charges someone could face? >> i think -- yes, first of all, and it also really limits donald trump's defenses. so, one of the defenses that there's already been a trial balloon out there, is that trump declassified documents before he left office. for nuclear documents, certain types of those, he cannot declassify those alone. he would need, for example, the department of energy to sign off regarding the declassification of certain nuclear documents. it also just, i think, makes it hard for -- a jury would have a difficult time believing that he declassified, in his mind. there is some belief that without telling anybody or writing it down that he just in his own mind declassified these while he was president. i think that would be difficult for a jury believe when it comes to nuclear secrets. it's the sort of thing that the average person is going to see as obviously government

. >> renato, this insider who tipped off federal authorities that there was more at mar-a-lago, how worrying do you think this person should be for trump's inner circle and what more could they offer, do you think, to investigators? >> well, i suspect that they're continuing to stay in touch with the justice department. typically when we had cooperating sources we would stay in touch with them. if there were any threats, we would take steps to protect those sources. i had situations where some of my cooperators were threatened. i know my office even had a cooperator who was murdered. it is something that the department takes seriously. and as for this source, i'm sure that they're concerned about potential reprisals and, you know, i think they should be concerned about that. obviously not violence or something like that, but they could be concerned about their employment and their future. >> "the wall street journal" reporting overnight also includes reporting that the boxes that were retrieved of documents from mar-a-lago on monday are still at the fbi field office down in miami. can you ex

. >> renato, the investigation will continue, right ? is this a stall tactic? >> very limited value, shepard . all that matters is the fbi will get the information it needs. they will review for privilege purposes and theoretically would achieve, you know, the same results as what i assume the fbi is deploying now. i'm not really sure this actually practically does a lot to move the needle forward for the former president, but it does get his story out there. >> there is another note on this matter. the judge will decide whether to unseal the affidavit. he indicated he may not release anything at all because it would be so heavily redacted that it would be meaningless. what you make of that decision? >> it's interesting. i have to say, shepard, i am surprised the judge even considered releasing the affidavit . when they have their homes in office, they would love to see the affidavit. that is rarely an option given to them. i am surprised he was willing to entertain it here. it suggests to me he is taking seriously the fact that on redacting that affidavit will

first i want to go to renato mar mariotti. your rar former federal prosecutor. trump famously said innocent people don't plead the fifth, but in this situation, the new york attorney general has been pretty outspoken about wanting to take trump down. do you blame the former president for doing a 180 here? >> no, i think he's making the right decision. i mean, i think regardless of her statements, i think it's fair to say that he's facing significant liability on multiple fronts. we know some former white house aides have been interviewed before the grand jury. we know that of course there is a recent search warrant executed at his mar-a-lago estate. there's a lot of reasons why he wouldn't want to be questioned under oath right now. >> jaus campbell, i'm going to turn to the mar-a-lago search by the fbi earlier this week. why do you think the doj used a search warrant at mar-a-lago instead of a less intrusive method of getting these documents? investigators went to mar-a-lago in early june. why do you, as a former fbi agent, think that they wouldn't have gotten

renato, what does it mean to be a target in a state case? >> that is a very specific term in criminal law. it means that the prosecutors are likely to indict mr. giuliani. we often hear the term subject thrown around. many different people could be a subject of the case. that means that they are being looked at, but target means something very specific and it means mr. giuliani should be waiting for indictment >> meanwhile, he is appealing to a higher court. what is the outcome he is hoping for and how likely is that to happen? >> i think the outcome that he is realistically hoping for is to delay, take some time off the clock, so to speak, and show to the former president that he is being loyal and doing whatever he can to resist this. i don't realistically think that he is going to get out of testifying. >> renato, our thanks to you, as always. >>> former trump organization cfo alan weisel berg expected to plead guilty to criminal charges as early as thursday. last summer, the manhattan d.a.s office charged him with tax fraud and other cri

renato, always good to see you. >> absolutely.ave been covering the big stories on the elections, on the law. we turn to facts and what many people see in progress holding alex jones for his profitable and despicable lies in court today. he took the stand with the cameras on. it's a big deal. >>> later, matt gaetz and roger stone caught on a hot mic. first, a story that just keeps on kicking. fox news, the internal split, the murdoch/trump plans, and why there are two views in one night about whether it's good to kill a 9/11 plotter. a 9/11 plotter when pain says, “it's time to go home” “i say, “not yet”. ♪ ♪ aleve. who do you take it for? i get bladder leaks. i didn't want to feel like i was wearing the pads i wore when i was twelve. then i tried the always discreet pads. they fit perfectly in the places they're supposed to. look how much it holds, and it still stays thin! it's the protection we deserve! a monster was attacking but the team remained calm. because with miro, they could problem solve together, and find the answer t

in the meantime, i think the proper thing to do is to kind of take -- handle this by the book. >> renato, thanks very much. the former president is fund-raising off the fbi search. his team sent an email out today asking supporters to give money to stand up against what he calls the never-ending witch hunt republicans from all corners of the party coming to his defense. the florida governor, ron desantis, writing the raid of mar-a-lago is another escalation in the weaponization of federal agencies against the regime's political opponents. the georgia congresswoman, marjorie taylor greene, going further. defund the fbi even former vice president pence who was branded a traitor by the former president backed him up i share the deep concern of millions of americans over the unprecedented search of the personal residence of president trump. one top republican, however, has not commented at all, even when asked directly for his reaction. >> i'm here today to talk about the flood and the recovery from the flood. >> the senate minority leader, mitch mcconnell there, choosing not to answer. the

. >> renato, a local teacher, organizes this event. >> tonight, there is a huge feast with the villagersfor the good times in this region which was once ravaged by famine, where farmers were treated as indentured servants by their oppressive, aristocratic landlords, until relatively recently. >> this is a world away from the steaks and fine wines of florence. the people here cook what they grow. after the toil of harvesting and milling wheat, what they are left with is bread. lots, and lots of bread. >> here, the dough is rising, and you cook it in that oven. like it was done many years ago. >> over in the kitchens, 200 villagers are hard at work preparing the feast. here, too, bread plays a starring role in pretty much everything >> it's so hot. thank you. >> i go out back and discover wood fires full of roasting gander's. these geese were one of the few farm an alert animals peasants were allowed to keep for themselves and not have to share with lenders they were saved for special occasions, like weddings and festivals. the smell is incredible. >> oh, come on. >> fantastic. you are gre

. >>> now, former federal prosecutor, renato. this was a dramatic step for the doj. does the possibility of mishandled classified documents warrant all of this? or could there be more to it than that? >> i think there is more to it than just classified documents. one of a few things has happened. there are willfully transferring materials through a third-party or destroying documents in some way or perhaps, misusing them or leaking them in a spot where they could be captured by foreign adversaries. also, there is also the possibility where, for example, given the negotiations with the justice department, perhaps their representations that the justice department later determined were determined were false. >> republicans and democrats are asking for an immediate explanation from the doj. it is an ongoing investigation and that would be way outside the norm but, could they and should they? >> i have to say, i think that there are some -- i think there is reason for public concern. that said, i really think it counsels against going outside of the justice department bef

bottom line, renato, it took time. you have the return of some material and then everything you see on the rest of that list is all the time that it went through. and so given that there's been so much talk about being a citizen and not above the law, i want to start with the most simple question to you and then we can build. that is okay? >> sure. >> if a different citizen, just a human, had this kind of classified material at home and then was subpoenaed, would they get this much time and this much deference in treatment? just before we even get to monday. >> no way. this is kid gloves, ari. if i had 15 boxes or more of classified documents in my house, the fbi would be here to pick it up. they'd be beating down by doorstep. i wouldn't get a subpoena, i wouldn't get a request, i wouldn't get months of time to figure it out. it would be taken from me swiftly, period. >> yeah. and my second question is also simple, then we can get intricate. did you ever hear the expression don't mistake my kindness for weakness? >> i

thank you renato mariotti. >> be sure to toon in tomorrow night "megaphone for conspiracy" with alex> china fired missiles near the island. the latest from taipei next. it. and more customers today are relying on their cars emergencncy breaking and lane departurere warning. that's's why our recalibration service is state of the art. we recalibrate your vehicle's camera, so you can still count on those safety features. all right, we're all finished. >> customer: thank you so much. >> tech: thank you. don't wait--schedule now. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ (jackie) i've made progress with my mental health. so when i started having unintentional body movements called tardive dyskinesia... i ignored th. but when the twitching and jerkinin my face and hands affected my day to day... i finally had to say, 'it's not ok.' it was time to talk to my docto. she said that austedo helps reduce td movements in adults... while i continue with most of my mental health medications. (vo) austedo can cause depression, suicidal thoughts, or actions in patients with huntington's dise

initially broke the story today, sadie gurman of "the wall street journal," and former federal prosecutor renatotti. thank you for joining us. hello to both of you. just to clarify this, which government agency was looking for these documents or material? >> this all started when the national archives notified the justice department that within about 15 boxes of documents collected after trump left the white house was some serious information. they referred this to the justice department for investigation, and that has prompted this incredible back-and-forth that we are seeing which culminated this week with a search, and in the release of a search warrant, the justice department came looking for any sort of remaining classified documents that were at mar-a-lago, and they found quite a few, as the warrant that we saw today revealed. judy: there has been a lot thrown around about what was in these documents. what was known about what was there? for example, nuclear information about nuclear weapons. what is known about what was found? >> we actually know very little from this warrant in and of it

renato, thank you very much. >>> deshaun watson suspended for six games for violating the personal conduct policy. a retired federal judge issued the long-awaited ruling today. the nfl and the players union both will oversee this disciplinary hearing. the suspension comes after two dozen women sued watson, accusing him of sexual misconduct during a series of massage sessions in 2020 and 2021. watson has reportedly settled all of the losses except one. in her ruling today, the retired judge wrote in part although this is the most significant punishment ever imposed on an nfl player for allegations of nonviolent sexual conduct, mr. watson's pattern of conduct is more egregious than any before reviewed by the nfl. watson has denied any wrongdoing and does not face any criminal charges. the judge also chose not to find watson. the nfl now has three days to file an appeal. according to the associated press, the league initially wanted watson suspended at least a year and find at least $5 million. the players union already announced it will let today's ruling stand. deshaun watson's attorney has

now, the upside for doj is if they win, and i do think they will win, i agree with renato that they have a stronger case to make in a criminal context, then they get those key conversations. the downside is delay. it takes time, we have seen these court battles and you have to include appeals take months and months and months, which is incumbent on doj to get in there quickly if they have this quickly, and on our courts, our judges, they can hear cases as quickly as they choose to do so. if you get a case and you're a federal judge, please put it at the top of the pile. >> is this the kind of thing that would go to the supreme court to give some guardrails around what exactly is executive privilege and how far it gos? >> it could. it would start in a federal district court, which is the trial level. whoever loses there essentially automatically gets to go to the court of appeals, the intermediate court. whoever loses there will try to get it up to the supreme court. but, of course, the supreme court doesn't have to hear anything they don't want to hear, but these are sort of novel questi

let's talk about all this with former federal prosecutor renato marietti. let's start there, the fact that katelyn said, it took a year of back and forth, more than a dozen emails and calls, one of the president's lawyers pat cipollone according to this email saying you should give these documents back while you're in office, that didn't happen. in january, trump finally gives 15 boxes, a year after he left office, but not the 24, legally what does this portend? >> well, what it really means, poppy is that it is actually a really goes to the state of mind of the former president. you know, i have been on cnn many times, talking about all the challenges that doj has in various cases proving the former president's knowledge, his intent, his state of mind, and really that's a lot easier here. and that's because he was told by many people, as you point out, including his own white house counsel that he needed to give these documents back and he didn't. and the doj and the archivists and others actually treated him with kid gloves and gave him all sorts of warni

because last hour, i think it was renato mariotti pointed out it's one thing to unlawfully store or take classified documents and just leave it there, but you also have the obstruction of justice charges which indicate that some may, may, we don't know, have been destroyed. >> that's right, amara. these are three very different crimes. two of these crimes would require some sort of bad intent. the espionage crime would require the president, or anyone, really, to have these documents to have the intent to harm the united states or help one of our enemies. the destruction charge would require the intent to destroy the document or somehow keep it from investigators. but the third charge, the concealment charge, simply having a government document that you're not supposed to have, there's no bad intent required in that statute. so if the fbi executed the search warrant, they found documents that should not have been at mar-a-lago, well, then, that's a crime and that crime can be prosecuted under that statute alone. so what's confusing to me is the defense that's being laid out by the presid

. >> tony renato plans to leave the secret service and plans to cooperate with a dhs inspector general, what are you learning. >> he's telling whitney wild, my colleague, that just because he's leaving the secret service doesn't mean there's not going to be cooperation, his lawyers are working with homeland security inspector general to cooperate in their investigation, and victor and alisyn, you know, obviously he's at the center of a lot of attention simply because of some of the accounts that came into the january 6th committee, and cassidy hutchinson, and some of the things that happened on january 6th. there's a separate investigation being done by the inspector general, and the question of where those text messages, missing text messages are among the things we know are still being investigated. victor and alisyn. >> evan perez in washington for us, thank you. >> sure. >>> the governor of mississippi declaring a state of emergency in jackson, where a water shortage is so dire that residents cannot brush their teeth or flush their toiletis. all schools are closed and moved to virt

it was something that was shared with her by tony renato. but of course he doesn't touch the countless claims that she made about him wanting people to come armed onto the ellipse that day, saying they're not here to hurt me, knowing they were there to hurt others. he doesn't address the substance of the investigation behind january 6th, and honestly is making light of one of the darkest days in not just his presidency but american history, and i think it's fairly shameful. >> david, to you, florida senator rick scott, who chairs the national republican senatorial committee made a comment that voters should elect candidates they'd be willing to hire. but when he was asked this morning about applying that same standard to candidates like herschel walker in georgia, here was his answer. >> in georgia, herschel walker has lied about the number of children he has, about his business dealings. his ex-wife said he held a gun to her head and said, i'm going to blow your f-ing brains out. in arz, the candidate, blake masters, called unabomber an und