his legal troubles with attorney renato mariotti. he's a former federalec pror. he currently works in private practice in chicago. renato mariotti, thank you for what do you hear in that recording that's significant? >> well, one thing they hear, judy, is ah discussionat makes it clear that the president is familiar with this that heenes the circumstances of it. he does not seyem surprised the subject at all. that would make it very difficult for the president orhi legal team to say later that the president had no knowledge of this matter. y it als know, the fact that he talks in the plural suggesthi thatisn't the first time that he's dealt with a situation like this. you know, if isk had ed you, if i demanded payment from you for information, i'm sure you'd have a lot of questions about it. wiewhowant to know you could be sure that the story wouldn't getu pblished, and you'd have a lot of questions about the details. you know, there's really not a

former federal prosecutor renato mariotti is here, and so is harvard law professor and author of "the case against impeaching trump," the one and only alan dershowitz. thank you on a friday night. i appreciate you being here. mariotti, you are bringing the prosecution in this case. when you look at the tapes, they are damning for the president because? >> because he's talking to a suspected criminal about matters under which he is under federal investigation for. it's never a good thing when your client is talking to somebody who is under investigation, particularly when it's about the subject matter that the government's investigating. you can spin it all you want, and we've heard more reporting. cnn has reported there's other tapes and there's a lot of discussion about what's actually on these tapes. but it's never a good thing. >> fruit of the poisonous tree aside as to a potential ethical violation by one's counsel in making such tapes, it was his lawyer, alan dershowitz. he was talking to him.

renato mariotti, thank you forg join. what do you hear in that recording that's significant? >> well, one thing thy hear, judy, is asc dsion that makes it clear that the president is familiar wh this transaction, that heenes the circumstances of it. he does not seem surprised by the subject at all.ou that make it very difficult for the president or his legal team to say lat that e president had no knowledge of this matter. also, you know, the fact that he talks in the plural suggests that this isn't the first time that he's dealt with a situation like this. you know, if i had asked you, in i demanded pafrom you for information, i'm sure you'd hale of questions about it. wiewd want to know how you could be sure thathe story wouldn't get published, and you'd have a lot of questions about the details. you know, there's really not a lot of quee.ions her this seems almost like a standard transaction. the esident sugsts a number-- 150-- very quickly. and then there's, obv,ious this whole, as you played a moment ago, this whole discussion of cash. and regardless of how you read the