nationally is what the party >> hope for republicans nationally is what the party clings to because at the moment that's all they got. that much is evident if you read politico this morning which reported that they see the party on a national level as veering towards destruction. "it's almost impossible to find an establishment republican in town who is not down right morose about the 2013 that has been and is about to be. they see this year as a disaster-in-the-making even if most elected republicans don't know it or admit it. politico said threats of government shutdown and default and republicans are out. republicans have alienated an array of voting blocks. they promised to court after the 2012 elections, hispanics, blacks, gays and women. thanks to hyper partisan districts republicans have less to fear locally especially when it comes to their control of the house. nationally, however, it's a different story. jonathan allen is the senior washington correspondent with politico. sam stein is an msnbc contributor with "huffington post." jonathan, that piece created quite a buzz. as i

as i read it i said what's on the verge of the extinctiontion is the establishment of the republican party. >> yes they reported the morose mood among the establishmen in republican. you have social issues set in which the republican party has essentially alienated a lot of voters, hispanic voters, black voters, female voters. on the basic issues of governance you have a party that's threatening to shut down the government so it can defund obama care, the establishment doesn't library that but a lot of voice us of the party want to see that. or shutting down the government or let the nation default on its debt. any of those out comes is poor. >> this might not be evident in 2014 because all politics are local and in those hyper partisan districts for rs and ds republicans could have a very good year and give them a false since of bravado. >> those are the duelling tensions. you have a bunch of house republicans tuned to the political whims in their own districts and those whims are different what the republican party needs on the national level. what might be a good strategy for 2014 statu

>> you are right because the republican party is a conservative party. at's why generally conservative candidates win republican primaries. it's the people who have the core convictions that are the loudest and show up for things like town hall meetings. you're right, the passion in the republican party is among the conservatives. >> when that congressman tried to explain to that constituent that even though we vote to defund it, it will never get repealed because you have to get it repealed through the senate which is controlled by the democrats and signed by the president. making that rational argument didn't seem to make much news to the guy challenging him, did it? >> and that does happen. but i will tell you, defunding it even if it doesn't get through the senate will actually be good for republicans. it will probably help them pick up a majority in the senate. >> how so? how does it change reality? >> well, it will change reality because it might change the numbers in the united states senate. you change the numbers in the united states senate and y

number one, the social issue set in which the republican party has essentially alienated a lot of voters whether you're talking about hispanic voters, black voter, female voters. and then on the sort of basic issues of governance, you have a party that is threatening to shut down the government so that it can defund obama care. the establishment doesn't like that. certainly a lot of voices in the party want to see it or just shut down the government for the purpose of shutting down on the government or let the nation default on its debt. any of those outcomes are horror for the governance model that i think your traditional establishment republicans want to see. >> but sam, this might not be evident in 2014 because all politics are local, and in those hyper partisan districts, the republicans could have a very good year and give them a false sense of bravado in 2014. >> these are the dueling tensions inside the republican party. you have a bunch of house republicans very attuned to the political whims of their own districts and whose whims are very much much different than the party prob

that we can have a better future. >> hope for republicans nationally is what the party cling to because at the moment it's all they've got. that much was evident in you read politico this morning which reported that the republican establishment sees the party on the national level as veering toward destruction. they report that an "it's almost impossible to find an establishment republican in town who's not down right more rose about the 2013 that has been and is about to be. they see this year as a disaster in the making even if most elected republicans don't know the it or admit it, the party's wounds are many and they're all self-inflicked. poe at this time cosays threats of government shutdown and debt default have ended all hopes of proving that republicans are not insane when it comes to governing. thanks to out of mainstream reactions on issues like immigration, voting rights, marriage equality and women's rights, republicans have done an excellent job of alienating an array of voting blocs they promised to court after the 2012 elections. hispanics, blacks, gays and women. and th

that was the plan from the republican party in march. now the plan is to have the republican presidential candidates debate in the next cycle moderated by rush limbaugh. or maybe sean hannity. or somebody else from talk radio. today at the national republican party's annual summer meeting, the party chairman got a sustained standing ovation when he declared, we are done putting up with this nonsense! he got a standing ovation and then a unanimous vote by the rnc to ban cnn and nbc from carrying any republican presidential candidates debates in the next election cycle. ostensible reason is because cnn is planning to do a documentary on hillary clinton's career and nbc entertainment is planning on doing a mini series about hillary clinton's life, which "the new york times" says was to have been produced, actually sort of written and shot and everything, by fox television. so fox would produce it, fox would make the thing, but interestingly, that doesn't bother the republican party. the chairman says they only want to boycott cnn and nbc, be

>> well, i think that's a fight that's happening within the republican party right now. t's going to be one of the key themes in the 2016 race. when you have chris christie running from the moderate side of the party, one of the things that he's done that drives conservatives nuts is is the way that he clearly has very large disagreements with the president but he doesn't hate him personally and has a willingness to work with him when that's appropriate. conservatives got so upset over the hug after the hurricane where you had the photo opportunity of the president and governor christie embracing each other. and part of is that is driven by the fact that there's this huge personal animus toward the president, part of which, though i don't think a majority of which is remitted to racial animus. and i think that christie and certain parts of the northeastern establishment in the party have shown very little patience for that sort of approach. we're going to see in that nominating fight whether they went out in that discussion. >> i look forward to having that. josh barro, j

and the republican party needs to do something about mitigating what he's doing to their party and ultimatelyhat he could do to to this country and its government. >> cruz said republicans need to turn the argument around on president obama and he says, make him responsible for the government. some weird logic there because he insists on funding his health care law. it's the president's fault he wants to carry out the law. he said the idea the government shutdown was such a bad things in the '90s was is overblown. let's get this straight. he's not just talking about a government shutdown. he's talking about default, the chinese asking for our money back, we're finished. >> he's talking about the whole thing. this kind you have rhetoric just grows and grows and it builds like a snow ball rolling down the hill. you can't stop it because it demands -- >> why do you think, michael, it's working? why is it working with the angrily nasty right? >> they demand absolute purity. lamar alexander very consecutive -- conservative voting record. he voted to confirm a couple of these people and boom, that'

right now the republican party has been a rhetorically pro-limited government party, and there are -- i note in my book -- periods where the relin party has lived up to this rhetoric. the three historical periods i note are during the truman administration what they called the do-nothing congress under robert taft, the congress that came in with ronald reagan when he was elected in 1980 and the first year or two of the gingrich congress that came in in 1994. most of you are a little younger than me or quite a bit younger than me, but i always used to joke, you know, the knack had one good album, and the gingrich congress really only had two good years when it came to actually trying to cut government spending. but we need, if we're going to actually have limited government in this country, a political party that actually advocates limited government. we have a political party in the democrats that are certainly not shy about advocating for much bigger government. and president obama is very unapologetic in saying that there really aren't other institutions in american life that keep u

run out of the republican party.ruz not only wants to shut down the government. he wants to keep it shut down. i think he's using the obama model, as perry said. i think he's -- why build up a record that can then be used against you. run as soon as you have the opportunity. i think that's what's happening. >> and go back even to the convention. he was one of the best-received speakers on the floor at the republican national convention. he has this style, this sort of preacher-like cadence. he wears the face mic or whatever like he is madonna. he does have a lot of that charisma. it goes back to what we were talking about in the last segment with the government shutdown idea. he's not well liked among the senate. he's well liked among the people he's talking to in early presidential states. mitch mcconnell, not a friend to this guy. a lot of these people that try to get deals done, the john mccains of the republican party don't like him and that creates this tense environment. >> so far we've likened him to madonna a

not everyone in the republican party is trying to do this, but reince priebus is following the lead of the ted chris wing of the party right now. >> let me tell you, you're sitting in philadelphia with the cityscape behind you. it reminded me i grew up in pennsylvania, you're a professor at lehigh, with hugh scott, arlen specter, both republicans, and arlen would get like 35% of the african-american vote, a huge chunk, which is the historic percentage the republican party used to get, before it started to get 10% of the black vote, which is why it loses a net 80% of the black vote in the big cities, because 90 minus 10 is 80. it used to be two thirds minus a third was a third, and the republican party could win statewide easily. about you when you start losing a net 80%, you're in the not in the business anymore. here is pennsylvania republicans, speaking out openly about using requirement to limit the vote. here's pennsylvania house republican leader mike turzai in june of last year. let's listen to him admit they're using this requirement to screw the black voter out of voting. let's

the forsythe county republican party has announced that they no longer support james lee knox in his bid to become the next mayor of winston-salem. this comes after mr. knox admitted using with the local paper describes as several derogatory terms including the "n" word in a confrontation with a local elections worker last year. mr. knox acknowledged that he used the racial slur after the 2012 election. he said he was trying to find out the name of a black elections employee with whom he had exchanged words during early voting. during a conversation with another county worker, mr. knox referred to the woman using several derogatory terms including the "n" word. mr. knox says he does not believe in using such words but that he, quote, got frustrated. that's how he explains it. he got frustrated. you get frustrated and out pops the "n" word. she was black. you know, as you do. so reportedly the state republican party in north carolina decided to not get involved in this situation in winston-salem, but the local party did drop their support for mr. knox. after initially telling the loca

the republican party i grew up watching and my party was part of. professor, this thing is a battle writ large, i think. you have the most respected republican across party lines and reince priebus, who has a jobsh he's a partisan. somehow he got the idea with this 30-some state effort to reduce the chance of a black vote, that the way to diminishing white percentage of the country and diminishing republican portion will survie is to make it the growing portion harder to participate. we'll have in quotes on this segment of republicans saying that's what they're up to. >> you're right. it's blazant, and it is quite cynical, kind of a last-ditch effort to play to that shrinking base over -- chris, you're right about general powell's sort of measuredness in terms of when and how he makes interventions, and party of the reason would you he's able to retain some of these credibility is because he does it so rarely, and so we does it, we want to hear what he has to say. every time he's made any of these interventions, he's been challenging his party to be

republican orthodoxy is rand paul. and that libertarian wing of the party has many ideas that the rest of the republican party considersrous and wrong and even disastrous. so they're not quite ready to present that as the alternative yet. it is going to take this party a while. >> i think you're exactly right, until you have somebody leading the ship, i don't think reince priebus is somebody that needs to be doing that, until he has somebody that can lead the party and bring them forward i don't think you will see much change for a period of time. >> abbey huntsman, and eugene robinson, thank you for joining us tonight. >>> coming up, a front page story today about the problems in the clinton family foundation. >>> and next, olympic gold medallist greg louganis will join me to talk about russia's anti-gay laws and the olympics in russia. [ heart beating, monitor beeping ] woman: what do you mean, homeowners insurance doesn't cover floods? [ heart rate increases ] man: a few inches of water caused all this? [ heart rate increases ] woman #2: but i don't even live near the water. what you don't know about flood insurance

first of all, not everyone in the republican party is pro-life, i am, but there are many pro-choice republicans. when governor perry pushed forward legislation in texas to ban abortion after 20 weeks, it was an extreme move. that's five months. there are only four countries in the world that have -- that legalize abortion after five months, china, north korea, canada and the u.s. it's actually not a particularly extreme position to say a woman needs to have a choice up to five months. then there has to be a medical reason. but it got cast as a very extreme point. i would be willing to wager that there are many, many single women who are pro-choice, who say you know what, five months sounds reasonable to me. i think part of the republican party's challenge is to not fall into the trap of having issues cast the way our political opponents want them cast, and be willing and courageous enough to have the debate. >>> there's also a strain in the republican party, places where you agree with rand paul on issues of foreign policy. cutting off aid to egypt. that's causes divisions inside the republican

two wings of the republican party. you believe it's good for the economy, you believe it's better politics and policy to deep-six immigration reform this year. >> to deep-six the actual bill? absolutely. it's a big government bill that will damage working class and middle class americans. i'm not for it. you can be for immigration reform without being for this 1300-page bill. >> the issue is how does something get done? okay? i think there is widespread agreement in the american public and the republican party we need immigration reform. i also think there is an opportunity, as you said, we need to make things better, well, let's make the bill better. let's do the things we need to do to make it work. i want to go back to the point about health care. if anyone oversold obamacare, it was president obama. he laid out a set of goals, a set of promises about what this bill would do, and not a single one of them is coming true. in fact, just the opposite, insurance premiums are going up. they can't keep the insurance plan.

>> the republican party is ossify identifying and will turn into the old whig water. -- old whig partyat this point conservatives, tea party activists and americans generally are concerned about the direction of the country. this spending is crippling. our healthcare industry is being destroyed. people are losing their policies and everybody across the economic spectrum is losing their policies. wouldn't it be wonderful if john boehner stood up and said we're the party of health care for all the people and we're going to do everything we can to defeat obamacare, and if obama wants to shut down the government, that's up to him. we're sending a bill to harry reid right now that funds the government all but obamacare but the republicans don't do that. they're attacking ted cruz, rand paul, mike lee, down the list. the republican party seems to think that timidity is the way forward. it's not neil kneeling when ted cruz and others support linking this to funding the government, and it's an uphill battle and won't go anywhere, then why keep pursuing it? >> i don't know. why pursue any battl

that i think you will see the same thing happen with the republican party over time. ough there will be republicans who will fight this tooth and nail all the way to the end when one day every american has the right to marry whomever they wish to marry. >> steve, trying to follow the -- not the sort of general election debate but debate among republicans on this issue leads to all sorts of surprising results. you see in the -- when alabama republicans were fighting about it this weekend, they decided they were not going to discipline the alabama college republicans president for having said she personally supported gay rights. in illinois it went completely the other direction. in new hampshire, they ended up with a more pro-gay rights decision in the legislature there. when you're looking at this as a republican strategist, what do you look for for signs of hope for your ability to make progress on this issue? >> well, look, you look at this issue regionally. not all regions of the country have the same sensibilities on this issue. look ahead to oregon where this figh

the republican party does not run we'll conservative choices. the republican party has no future. and that's the major theme, not to underestimate the degree to which the obama people have changed fundamentally and forever the nature of presidential politics. thank you very much. [applause] >> it's great to see you again. >> thank you. >> thank you for coming here and speak appreciate. thank you very much. >> sharing your to print publications. you've written a wide ranging book that colleges are the books from "the obama nation" to wide ranging topics of israel to obama's were certificate. the world through you've mentioned, [inaudible] the section and obama's administration has come we being and grading this downward spiral of american culture, from all your research and data such as gathered and you and mr. -- have written a lot about effective journalism, do you think it is true that you've seen from all your research this trend there have been continuing on this downward spiral? and if so, is there hope for what you call quote true conservatism? thank you very much. >> yes. a

i'm disappointed with the republican party at the countywide level. helping a dysfunctioning party that does not want to address its problems is enabling it. this fight between the establishment and money wing of the gop and the tea party has taken place behind the scenes. it's clear now that many believe they should fight back publicly. republicans have to hope, though, that this remains a 2014 phenomenon and is not what 2016 becomes about. last night in texas, senator cruz drew a standing room only crowd with a mix of red-hot friends and a bit of foes. nbc's casey hunt was there. she joins us now live from dallas. this was largely ted cruz preaching to the choir. but is there a disconnect here? the establishment in d.c. says one thing. did you feel as if, hey, there is a grassroots conservative base out there that wants ted crui cruz's philosophy to prevail? >> this absolutely was his base. but at the same time, it was a tuesday night, 7:00, in august, and there were thousands of people there. so i mean at the very least it was a good show on heritag

and who may remember if there's a republican party that can take back its party.dent eisenhower wrote his brother at a certain point and said, if the yahoos in the republican party are going to take away social security, take away unemployment insurance, that is the stupid wing of the republican party. and they, those inside this party, this country deserves more than two great parties, retrieve that party. because the way it's going -- >> the democrats controlled the house for 40 years after medicare. okay? they were saying the same things about medicare back in the '60s. that they're saying right now about obama care. it's like they're pulling out the old material and making the same comparisons and making the fear marketing. the question is, away from the faith for a moment, with all that's gone on, can the democrats win the house back if this kind of behavior continues to show up? they are lying to the american people. >> i don't know, ed, because we need deep structural reform. but what you do know, there are poor people in these jgerimande districts. they sh

does the republican party stand for something? h is shaking his head. >> this is not an actual point of leverage for them. the complaints have not come from squishy republicans who want to move off this fight and want to find ways to compromise with the president. what happens when you shut down the government, everybody in washington starts pointing fingers at each other about whose fault this is. this is going to blame the republicans because they've specifically said, we're going to shut down the government. >> the republicans lost eight seats after the shutdown with gingrich? >> after that they then lost seats in the '98 election and their status in amongsted the public completely collapsed. i mean -- >> and you think it was related? >> oh, yeah. >> i was there, tom coburn was there, richard burr was there, they're two of the people who say, don't do this. i mean, the memories of that have become sort of the republicans -- >> i like, by the way, the argument tim made is the best argument i've heard for it, if you actually belie

the real leader of the republican party is the loudest crazy person at the next town meeting you've got to go to if you're a republican member in congress. that guy with the blonde case, the nut case that calls the president foreign born despot was more powerful in that room than the member of congress who kowtowed to him. john boehner had said let's be reasonable, she would have shouted her down. this guy shouted her down. >> props to tim murphy for reporting this first actually. that was very great to jump on that. it gets to the question we've been talking about. ted cruz is not playing for people who are worried about shutting down the government. he's playing towards the republican base and. >> the birthers. he was out with gohmert the other day, one of the wildest of the birthers. >> the pew study foundation came out with a study the other day asking republicans, do you think your party is going in the right direction or not. most said no. but 54% said they wanted it to be more conservative. so that's what he's doing. this is all setting up 2016 and becoming the nominee or the cha

>> reverend, it's a stage for the republican party during the primary debates to showcase their fracturedremism. so if you're a strategist, a republican strategist that wants to get somebody into the white house and wants to appeal to a more moderate constituency, get those independent votes, you're crossing your fingers, and you are hoping that you can get down to as few debates as possible during the primary season so that you can get away from the surface of the extreme elements that we saw in 2012. remember the gaffes of rick perry and the gaffes of newt gingrich. you want to get away from that. get the cameras away and focus on the issues and focus on building up the moderate base. so priebus, i think he is baiting the networks to keep the movies going so he can conveniently pull out. >> and maybe, ari, that's the point. if he can do that, keep the battle going to the networks, pull out so only fox news is where you would see republicans. >> yeah, and that wouldn't be a good strategy as you were saying. they have lost four of five of the national votes when we have had full president