thirty languages is in america's fellow at the university of oxford and founder of the richard dawkins foundation for reason and science he joins me now from our studios in miami professor dawkins welcome it's a pleasure thank you it's a pleasure and an honor to have you with us in the selfish gene you shook up the discussion of natural selection you coined the term the selfish gene as a way if correct me if i have this wrong place as way of expressing the genes centered view of evolution as opposed to the views focused on group selection given that you also say that genes just are they can survive independently of the cell the cell can survive in the better the organism how do you reckon to reconcile the need for biological cooperation with your hypothesis of a selfish gene. cooperation takes place at the level of the individual or individuals cooperate selfish the whole point about my book the selfish gene is not that individuals and selfish but individuals may well very well be able to restrict cooperative as a result of their genes in being selfish and obviously that takes a book to explain b