i think that's the key issue as has been pointed out. >> and let me just stay with you, richard gritta. this question about moving to another state, how easy or difficult is something like that to do for boeing? >> well, it's not easy, but it's kind of an applied capitol budgeting decision, are the costs to move, to say alabama or to north carolina or utah which are right-to-work states, has to be weighed against the present value of the benefits. the lower wages that they would pay elsewhere and the fact that in nonunion states they could easily hire people that would be willing to go with a 401 traditional plan. >> so i gather that mistakes are so high, the conflict is so difficult, or intense that this has really split the union in some ways, the local versus the-- the national and international. >> well, i think that's been overplayed in some important ways. they have different perspectives. the internationals are looking at the long-term future of the industry. the long-term creation of jobs and a key technology that would go into sigh at el with highly paid unionized workers, car