hear about that and that's important and often times omitted part of the story and on his left is richard haser, anybody who knows about this and thinks about it, politics in large member through the writing of richard haser, his election output on the subject in newspapers across thecountries and in the new york times , slate, i can't begin to name them, his scholarship, his well-known blog, all of that has been probably the most prominent commentator on federal campaign-finance and other election law issues in the united states and he is a professor at the university of california at irvine law school. so with this group i'd like to begin by just broadening the subject out so for vice president biden early today, he opened up the conversation by saying briefly and i'm continuing, he thought there was too much money in politics and he thought it was corrupting an earlier there was some discussion on the prior panel that the evidence about how much corruption or not corruption there is associated with political money was mixed and certainly some of our panelists thought virtually nonexistent so