but which richard hofstadter wrote that we see some search for a way out and they opt for violence to take that way out. >> i was struck by what you were saying about how this is something that is where america is quite unusual. one has struck by the spectacle of the change of government in britain, where you had a party radically different you had this conservative tory government give way to a labour government and they did so in the most civilized way possible. rushes, right? and rishi sunak got out and said, keir starmer is a decent man who wants the best for his country. he is now our prime minister he has missed successes will be our successes. starmer complimented rishi sunak you think about our last election and you think about this. we're in a very different place. you the seams we always think america is that, that's democracy in the world. but this is an area where a lot of the rest of the world handles this better than we do. i think that's right. i don't think there's any major democracy that has a problem today. holding a free and fair election that is seen as legitimate

. >> joe, i don't think the historian richard hofstadter had this in mind when he talked about anticlericalism in america. >> taking it a step further, isn't it? >> this is beyond that, no more people, joe. how do you respond to those sorts of claims? how do you respond to that kind of lyrical performance? i don't know, it is pure practical, pure performative. how do you respond to that? you state your position, you state your position clearly, dismissed the foolishness, what the position is. you might even call it bullishness. at the end of the day, i want to go back to something as i was taking about my wrist wants to president biden's remarks in the oval office yesterday and i think about this in donald trump, i am working on this new book, joe, and the question, what happens to the american idea when the future is no longer available to it, because the past has followed everything up? we are so nostalgic about what has gone on before. we want to reach for something in the past. what joe biden did last night, no matter what you think about his policies, or whatever, whether you disagree wit