you' got nior, the grand daddieif you will are the vietnam generations symbolized by richard holbrook but really including some others. then there's the clinton, bill clinton's generation. people who came of age in the 90's and then there are what i call the true obamians are people who didn't serve on foreign policy in state or defense or anything until this administration. and they're the ones that i think have a different perspective on the world. >> rose: let's talk about that. the first group is the holbrook represented the longest serving the the then hillary clinton, leon panetta. >> tom donald -- and then a whole bunch of people, michelle was the undersecretary of defense, curt campbell, a whole bunch of people. jim stein becker the former deputy secretary of state. the people who came of age and began working on foreign policy in the 90's. >> rose: who was for what? >> i think that 90' so the holbrook generation always had in mind the disaster in vietnam. it's not that they were necessarily, and i warned people they weren't really of the left wing of the democrat party someti

. >> rose: richard holbrook wrote a chapter on him. what is it you want us to know. >> how tragic it was, that he really didn't fit in with the obama team, that they, he never had the scope to do what he wanted but in addition, that there was a generational conflict there as well. that he really, he saw himself as the central figure in afghanistan and other people in the administration, and then including the president didn't. and really it was just not a good fit. so actually, i mean i had people say, we had a meeting on afghanistan and holbrook came in and began talking about vietnam and finally we were all rolling our eyes. i had the u.s. ambassador to the united nations susan rice not of holbrook but saying we're just so sick of the psychosis of the 60's. so he really didn't want -- >> rose: many people thought u.s. involvement in iraq of george bush 41 would have said that he ended the vietnam syndrome. >> right. that's right and not just george bush but democrats going way back to gary hart i'm past vietnam. in the odd perspectiv

it involved personalities, secretary of state hillary clinton's point man, richard holbrook didn't get along with white house decisions, key members of the nt's war cabinet. instead trying to fund a way to essentially broker their differences a very nasty acrimonious fight. more to do with substance than how people behaved in meetings their style, mannisms it involves very -- at times childish efforts to under cut them. i recall one scene in the book some of the president ' advisors tried to exclude holbrook from an oval office meeting once he was excluded they planned to slip the president talking points to say everybody in this room represents me, and has my trust, the suggestion, being that holbrook didn't have his trust. it was foiled at the last minute when secretary clinton insisted he attend but they were obsessed with fighting with some body who was supposed to be on their team the result is that we squandered more than a year when we had maximum leverage, increasing troops when we had real momentum, in the war effort, we didn't seize upon it. earlier on when the president sign

. >> let's talk about richard holbrook. larger than life figure, tragically lost.you report, he has always been edgy and difficult for his colleagues and that's both his charm and -- >> yes. >> -- his challenge. he never was accepted by the people, the national security people, around president obama that jim jones, the former advisor, tried to get him fired, hillary clinton defended him. that whole debate with the holbrook pushing for negotiations with the taliban got lost because of his personality and the politics of it and we missed a window. is that -- >> it is. it came down to sheer personality politics. holbrook, this larger than life figure, a real great man of democratic foreign policy with an ego to match, really was not well received by the new team inside the white house. by senior officials at the national security council, by other members of president obama's inner team, and they wanted to marginalize him. holbrook was protected by his loyal friend, secretary of state hillary clinton. so what happened was for more than a year, both sides just fought

the veteran diplomat richard holbrooke who died a year and a half ago. trying to manage the overall diplomatic strategy. really try to push towards getting to negotiations with the taliban. a very difficult challenge. this is a guy who had ended fighting in the balkans. a real diplomatic heavyweight. there were senior officials in obama's white house who just didn't like him. it was very personal, acrimonious fight. what happened was their infighting essentially stalled american policy in trying to come up with a plan to get to negotiations. it wasn't like the taliban were sitting at the other end of the table. this is what they were seeking to do. what i detail in this book is the real nasty infighting that got very personal. excluding holbrooke from meetings. forbidding him from using government planes. trying to slip talking points to the president of the united states after excluding holbrooke from a meeting with president karzai. >> childish stuff that came with a steep price. >> we had troops on the ground, fighting, dying to try to protect the afg

at the state department, you had their pointman for afghanistan, the veteran diplomat, richard holbrookend a half ago. he was in charge of trying to manage the overall diplomatic strategy but to try to push toward getting toward negotiations with the taliban, a very difficult challenge. but this is a guy who ended fighting in the balkans, who tried to end the iraq war. but there were senior officials in obama's white house what didn't like him. it was a personal, acrimonious fight. their infighting essentially stalled american policy in trying to come up with a plan to get to negotiations. it wasn't like the taliban were sitting on the other end of the table. but this was what they were seeking to do. and what i detail in this book is the real nasty infighting that got very personal, excluding holbrooke from meetings, forbidding him from using government plains. trying to slip talking points to the president of the united states after excusing holbrooke from a meeting after a meeting with president karzai. childish and petty stuff. >> that came at a stiff price? >> yes, we had soldiers d

you right about richard holbrooke. the diplomat. he died. memorial service.s talked about his father and said, i'm quoting you, his father wasn't around to teach him to throw a ball or to watch his games but as he grew older he realized holbrooke's absence was the presence of saving people around the world, a price worth paying. i think your point was, as a woman i read that and said, gosh, if the roles were reversed, the perception would be she was a bad mother, she was selfish, she was a failure. even though she was out saving the world. now, how do we change that? because that seems to be society and how we raise boys and girls to think about parenting. >> yes. and there i think you partly many, many more men, as are happening, are making the same choices, to spend more time. so that you think about this as a work/life balance for men and women. but there are still lots of stereotypes we have to change. why do we talk about working mothers and not working fathers? >> right, that's a good point. >> that's a pretty basic point. if you started to talk about,

this was a vicious and petty and personal thing, and it involved richard holbrook, who was part of thea senior national security team at the white house. we were more concerned with fighting each other over very small and personal things as opposed to broader policy. what it meant was that we essentially wasted the first year of a promised troop surge. a moment of maximum leverage to pursue negotiations with the taliban and try to sort out car way members of the insurgency that have been fighting our troops and the afghan people. jenna: it is interesting to see the words tribal politics. not about the afghan people, we are talking about our own government. what you are describing, does that cost lives? >> i think ultimately there was a cost in lives. look, the cost is that we have 90,000 troops here today. they are fighting incredibly hard, serving honorably, they deserve the best washington in supporting them. the other big problem was -- the first group of troops we sent largely to parts of the country that weren't as important as other places. i detailed this in the book. how they m

started the first munk debate in 2008 with a big wind with charles krauthammer defeating the late richard holbrooke and samantha power on the question of is the world a safer place with a republican in the white house? [laughter] [applause] can he ladies and gentlemen make it too for once a night? we will say this, undeniably brain sale for it brain cell he was one of the most formidable debater of his generation. he is also a celebrated harvard professor and "the daily beast" "newsweek" columnist, a film and diverse area and best-selling author. our own niall ferguson. [applause] now to my immediate left our second debaters speaking in favor of tonight's motion brings a vital perspective. the view of the german people on the fast-moving eurozone crisis. he is the publisher of the prestigious german weeklies iced, germans at equivalent of "time" magazine are canada's own maclean's, the author of numerous best-selling books of geopolitics including goober power, america's material temptation and his analysis of geopolitical events appears regularly in "the new york times" in the new republic and the

infighting in washington, particularly between the state department and the white house and between richard holbrookeand senior officials of the security team at the white house. it was largely personal. holbrooke was brought to to try to see if they broached a peace deal and get them in the path of negotiations. he had his flaws, but this was his mandate. the folks at the white house could not abide by him doing that d they thought he was going to hog the glory. petty stuff that blocked him from using military aircraft and the meetings at one point he is i bush appointee and hamid karzai comes in and condocket a plan and try to slip the president's talking point and everyone represents me and has my trust of. >> for those of us lucky enough to know richard, they kept it from a meeting. >> even richard would be represented, i think as well as anybody. on the air, create a most defensive of sending troops into iran. off the air he was completely different. we hear that and that's not just richard. that is official washington coming on the show saying one thing on the air and off air going i don't know

the munk, the very first, in 2008, with a big win with charles crouthimer defeating the late richard holbrooke and samantha power on the question of the world being a safer play with a republican in the white house. can he, ladies and gentlemen, make it two for one tonight? we'll say this. undenyably brain cell for brain cell he's one of the most formidable debaters of his generation. he's also a celebrated harvard protester, a daily beast news week columnist, a documentary film emprisaro, and internationally best-selling author. our own niall ferguson. [applause] >> to my immediate left our second debater speaking again in favor of tonight's motion brings a vital perspective, the view of the german people on the fast moving euro zone crisis. he is the publisher of the prestigious jerman weekly, germany's equivalent of "time" magazine or canada's own mclean's. he's the author of numerous best-selling books on geopolitics, including uber power, america's imperial temptation, his analysis of geopolitical events appears regularly everywhere from "the new york times," the new republic, he lon time

richard nixon finally gave up the office. >> again the movie "all the president's men" hal holbrook plays the part of mark felt, deep throat, and robert redford plays the part of bob woodward and then dustin hoffman, carl bernstein. let's look at a little clip. they're in the garage, it's dark, and we'll come back. >> the garage, by the way is in rosslyn, virginia. >> right over the bridge from where we're sitting. let's watch this. >> the coverup had little to do with watergate, it was mainly to protect covert operations. it leads everywhere. get out your notebook, there's more. your lives are in danger. >> hi, i finally got someone on the phone. ♪ ♪ >> any evidence that their lives were threatened? >> not really, although the book "all the president's men" alludes to the fact that deep throat made such a representation. i really don't think their lives were in danger. >> what do you say to your students, they're getting history off of hollywood, which you say is often wrong. >> or exaggerated or, you know, made to -- >> and we watch, as you point out, the media loves to give itself prizes and awards, and they perpetuate t

started the first munk debate in 2008 with a big wind with charles krauthammer defeating the late richard holbrooke and samantha power on the question of is the world a safer place with a republican in the white house? [laughter] [applause] can he ladies and gentlemen make it too for once a night? we will say this, undeniably brain sale for it brain cell he was one of the most formidable debater of his generation. he is also a celebrated harvard professor and "the daily beast" "newsweek" columnist, a film and diverse area and best-selling author. our own niall ferguson. [applause] now to my immediate left our second debaters speaking in favor of tonight's motion brings a vital perspective. the view of the german people on the fast-moving eurozone crisis. he is the publisher of the prestigious german weeklies iced, germans at equivalent of "time" magazine are canada's own maclean's, the author of numerous best-selling books of geopolitics including goober power, america's material temptation and his analysis of geopolitical events appears regularly in "the new york times" in the new republic and the