i know jim baker would have appreciated richard holbrook as a worthy adversary and debate partner. nized his excellence and he liked to play tennis and he would have known holbrook for a good player. >> it's a great thought experiment. what would it have been baker versus holbrook. pick up on -- let me ask you he talked about in the end he didn't know himself. does jim baker know himself? >> he is not a reflective person. we love doing this book we have a live subject so we got the chance to ask all these questions and the truth is he isn't somebody that is going to open up his psychological profile and expose himself in that way. he's super disciplined even to this day but he did give access to his papers and again they are not like holbrook's letters. they were not expressive in that way. there were little clues here and there. one was this tragedy where his first wife died of cancer and he gave us a letter that there was a policy for. he writes it with george bush and they moved from the house and he tries to get baker to run from the house seat. he writes the letter explaining w

bill clinton was reelected and had warren christopher is a secretary of state it came down to richard holbrooke and madeleine albright. clinton was leaning toward holbrooke because he said he is brilliant and he has a great mind he knows more he's relentless. hillary clinton wanted to be the first female secretary of state but in the end clinton said to al gore don't think holbrooke has the self-awareness to keep it relation shows from becoming toxic. that was assured analysis of his character. holbrooke understood the person across the table whether it was slow but on mullahs of its -- slow but on mullahs a bit. he couldn't see himself or laugh at himself that he couldn't see himself as others saw him. there was a kind of lifelong blindness to his own flaws in his own character that i think was a fatal flaw that meant he could negotiate but when there was an obstacle that lay in himself he didn't go know how to get around it and that was what ended his relationship with barack obama. holbrooke was trying to lecture him and flatter him and talking about yet non-and this ancient guarantor coming

it came down to richard holbrook and madeleine albright. and clinton was actually leaning towards holbrook because he said he's brilliant. his right mind, he knows more. his relentless . hillary clinton wanted her husband to pick the first female secretary of state which went decisively. but in the end, clinton said to al gore, i don't think that holbrook has the self-awareness from incoming toxic for you and that was clinton's very shrewd analysis of holbrook's character. holbrook understood the person across the table brilliantly whether it was bill clinton or whoever. he did not know himself very well. he could not see himself . could not laugh and himself . cannot see himself as others were seeing him. there was a kind of lifelong blindness to his own flaws in his own character that i think was a fatal flaw. in the end it meant that he could negotiate but when there was an obstacle delayed with him himself they did not know how to get around it. and that was what and in his relationship with barack obama. holbrook was driving obama crazy

[laughter] >> i know that jim baker would have appreciated richard holbrooke as a worthy adversary andrtner he recognized his excellence. and at sexist time, he liked to play tennis against a good player and he would have known holbrooke as a good player. >> it's a great thought experiment what would have been baker versus holbrooke. peter, pick up on george's-- i mean, let me ask you, he talked about in the end richard holbrooke really didn't know himself. does jim baker know himself? >> that's a great question. you know, he is not a reflective person. he's not an introspective guy. i loved doing this book, we loved doing this book because he was open with us. we have a live subject and george didn't, right? so we got the chance to ask him all of these questions and the truth is he's not somebody who is going to open up his psychological profile to you and really, you know, expose himself in that way. he is super disciplined even to this day, but he did give us access to his papers and his parents aren't like holbrooke's letters from vietnam, they weren't expressive in that way, but t

>> i know that jim baker would have appreciated richard holbrooke has a were the adversary he recognizes excellence and by the way he was known holbrooke for a good player but that's a great thought experiment baker versus holbrooke so talk to you in the end of holbrooke to know himself does jim baker know himself? >> he is not a reflective person not introspective. i love doing this because we let the chance to ask him these questions. and then to open up that psychological profile and expose himself in that way. and from those in vietnam are not expressed that way and one of them was very human was this tragedy when his first wife died from cancer. he raises friend george bush senate and to get to one from the house see he explains why he will not make the campaign. he says the reason why is his wife is dying and even she doesn't know it. they haven't told her this is maybe back and the area where the husband was told and the wife wasn't. but he says they can do it because my wife is dying and i haven't told her or my kids and my mother. the one person he tells is george bush that is a

>> i had met and interacted with richard holbrook on several occasions during the course of his career which i can't there was an intimate, nor did i serve with him or work with him on any kind of projects but he was clearly a towering figure but also a tragic figure. it is one of the best biographies i have ever read, completely different style, not your usual biography which made it so imposing. i'm so taken with it i have given it away multiple times for people to read because i think it has a lot of lessons for people in the place where i work. a book i just read recently by sidney blumenthal, all the powers on earth. this is the pre-presidential history of abraham lincoln that so much more than that. it is a sociological, political, cultural history of the tomatoes years between 1856 and 1860, so much gets sandwiched into that four year period that made the civil war really inevitable. everything from stephen douglas to the kansas nebraska act, bloodied kansas, john brown's raids in lawrence kansas and ultimately harpers ferry. these are four important pivotal years that led to th

his nonfiction books include our man, richard holbrooke and the end of the american century a finalist for the pulitzer prize. the unwinding, 30 years of american decline which won a national book award, the assassins gate america in iraq and blood of the liberals. he is also the author of two novels and a play and the editor of a 2-volume edition of the essay of george orwell. please join me in welcoming our special guests. >> welcome everybody. i hear they are at least a couple hundred of you which is fantastic and it will be a privilege and a pleasure to talk to frederik logevall and get her head out of the presence and out of the news for an hour or an hour and a half and into the past which is a great refuge as well as a guide for us as we try to navigate one of the stormy his years in our lives. fred i know you as the author of the two essential books on the vietnam war and it's not just me saying that the people i know who fought in vietnam and served in vietnam when not i asked where the books i have to read on where when i was researching my biography of richard holbrooke who

the books include our man richard holbrook and at the end of the american century. to get out of the news for an hour and a half as we try to navigate one of the storm used years in our lives. i knew you as a vietnam expert but now something broad as an american expert and shares a lot of interest with me and foreign policy so it's great to talk about this completely engrossing biography of jfk. so, welcome, fred and welcome to the audience. i guess the first question is inevitable, but why another biography. there are a dozen. it takes a little bit to wade into the waters where so many others have gone and we thought we knew everything there was to know so why did you take this on? >> it is tremendous to be with you and have the opportunity to talk about this stuff. in a way our two most recent books mine is the beginning of the american century and yours is about the latter part but it's great to be on with you. i've been fascinated by john f. kennedy and the kennedys for a long time. i've written about it in other contexts and in particular, vietnam and it's stil

book i don't have with me because i went it out, biography by george packer called "our man: richard holbrooke and the end of the american century". unique. i never read a book like it. it is not a traditional biography. it mixes opinion with facts and friend knowledge he. it is not your traditional biography but is a powerful book about a man in washington who sacrificed almost everything for a mission to climb up that latter. talented, destroyed family relations, destroyed personal relationships, friendships that were long-standing and just consumed by ambition. he also had some accomplishments, the author the dayton accord that ended the balkan wars and when he died he was the special envoy for afghanistan and made great strides in trying to tee up that issue and get america to look at its involvement but at the end of the day a tragic figure in terms of what he was willing to do and it took a story about power in washington and a cautionary tale of what happens so really powerful biography i highly recommend. >> did you know him at all? >> i had met and interacted with him on several occas

another book, i don't have with me because i live it out but the biography of george packer, richard holbrook called our man. uni i've never read a book like it. it is not a traditional biography . it mixes in opinion with factsand chronology. it's not your traditional biography by any means, it's a powerful book . it's a powerful book about a man in washington who sacrificed only everything for this. to climb up that ladder. talented, but really destroyed family relations. destroyed personalrelations . and just consumed by ambition. now, he also had some accomplices . he was credited with being author of the biggest records headed to baltimore and be when he died, he was the special envoy for afghanistan and had really made great strides in trying to be up that issue and get america to look at its involvement but the end of today kind of a figure in terms of what he was willing to do and then almost a morality story about power in washington and cautionary tale what gets by so many powerful biography and i highly recommend it. >> did you know jim at all congressman . >> i had and with over o

>> i had met and interacted with richard holbrook on several occasions during the course of his career. i can't say i was an intimate nor did i served with him or work with him on any kind of object, but he was clearly a towering figure, but also i think in some ways the tragic figure. and anyway, i think it's one of the best biographies i've ever read and completely different style. not your usual biography which made it so engrossing. i'm so taken with it, i've given away multiple times for people to read because i think it's a lot of lessons for people in the place where i work. i just read recently by sidney blumenthal, all the powers of the earth and this is the three presidential history of abraham lincoln but it's so much more than that. it's really a sociological and political cultural history of the tumultuous years between 1856 and 1860, so much gets sandwiched into that 4 year period that made the civil war inevitable. everything from populist sovereignty from stephen douglas to the kansas nebraska act and bloodied kansas and john brown's raid in lawrence kansas and harpers

and i remember her actually screaming at richard holbrooke that she didn't become secretary of state, wanted to have done for another contract, and she was trying to keep trying to get rid of it. but of course, as the u.s. trust out of walter, it presence there will have less use for private military contractors and the largest one, the one that used to be known, but is actually it will, is headed by the brother of the current secretary of education. and he is a very, very strong supporter and was involved in some of the, of the information operations as well, against against the democrats or i do. i think that the debt that was blocked, one writes, i'm sure that's, you know, blackwater and similar companies will not join in the favor of the by the strange when invited erik prince on the sound of the monitor event. thank you. thank you. it's over the show will be back on saturday, 30 years and a day in architecture near the river, margaret thatcher resigned as prime minister after years of using u.k. taxpayer money to fund a judge in afghanistan, whose members would catalyze the 911 a

and i remember her actually screaming at richard holbrooke that she didn't become secretary of state, wanted to have done for another contract, and she was trying to keep trying to get rid of it. but of course, as the u.s. draws out of walter, it presence there will have less use for private military contractors and the largest one, the one that used to be known as x. see it will is headed by the brother of the current secretary of education and he is a very, very strong supporter and was involved in some of the of the sure nation operations as well against against i think it was right. surely. you know what? it is what we invited erik prince on the show. dr. bonnet. ruben. thank you. thank you. that's in the show. we'll be back on saturday. 30 is the day, an architect of the liberal with margaret thatcher, resigned as prime minister after years of using u.k. taxpayer money to fund a majority in afghanistan, whose members would catalyze the 911 attacks on new york and washington d.c. until then. he would join the underground on you tube, twitter, and instagram, and facebook users. fin

i love to his book on mutual book - - richard holbrooke about how badly we had misunderstood so many of the conflicts vietnam to iran to bosnia where the current situation. obviously human beings are terribly forward and diplomats as well as. suggesting is not much of a learning curve? >> i think the cia is much more capable today that was in 1979 and the was lots that went to the school as they did but white mail and deal for decades and diversity is a huge problem at the cia. i think historically over many decades have learned to understand other cultures that whack a see where is a part of that. and i think the cia has improved and many other ways. >> you have any questions to them in the chant and i will work on. mm that was the dni and the director of national intelligence the creation of post 9/11 reorganization the government is to enhance the intelligence and national security priorities and abilities of the country. it meant the intelligence community community of the world and understand to function before. what you make of that or other directors make of that? >> a funny s

his nonfiction books include our man richard holbrook and the end of the american century, a finalist for the pulitzer prize. the unwinding: 30 years of americandecline which won a national book award . and blood of the liberals, he is also the author of two novels in theplay and the editor of the two-volume addition of theessays of george orwell . join me in welcoming our special guests . >> welcome everybody. i see there's at least a couple hundred of you which is fantastic . and it will be a privilege and a pleasure to talk to frederik logevall tonight and to get our heads out of the present and out of the news for an hour, hour and a half and into the past which is a great refuge as well as a guide for us as we try to navigate these stories in our lives. fred, i know you as the author of two essential books on the vietnam war and people i know who fought in vietnam, i asked them what are the books i have to read on the war when i was researching my biography who served in vietnam they said that's easy, choosing war and embers of war by the same guy, frederik logevall. so i knew yo

that we would have been smart enough to figure out what to do and i think i love his our man, richard holbrooky first lock by the way about just about the human, about how badly we have misunderstood so many of these complex things from vietnam to iran to nausea to our current situation. so we are obviously human beings who are terribly flawed and diplomats are as well. >> are you suggesting there's not much of a learning curve ? >> i think the cia is probably much more capable today and it was in 1979 . there's certainly a lot of ill effects to anybody who went to this school as i did but this sort of all white male and yale for decades. and there was diverse city was certainly a huge problem at the cia and i think it helps to blind the cia and in many ways i think we've been historically, there are many decades failed to understand these other cultures and lack of diversity was certainly a part of that.and that vastly improved now. and i think the cia has improved in many other ways to. >> interesting. i just want to tell anyone if you have any questions feel free to put them in the chat, th

i loved his book, our man come on richard holbrooke was my first boss by the way.bout come just about the human, just about how badly we have misunderstood so many of these conflicts from the vietnam to iran to bosnia to our current situation. we are obviously human beings who are terribly flawed in diplomats are as well. >> are you suggesting not much of a learning curve? >> well, i think the cia is probably much more capable today than it was in 1979. there was certainly a lot of -- no offense to anybody who went to the school as i did -- but it was considered all white male and yale for decades, and there was, diversity was certainly a huge problem at the cia. and i think it helped blind the cia many ways. i think we have been historically for many, many decades failed to understand these other cultures and lack of diversity certainly is a part of that. that's vastly improved now. i think the cia has improved in many other ways, , too. >> interesting. i just want to do either one if you have any questions feel free to put them in the chat, q&a, whichever you lik

and george packer, our nonfiction books, our man richard holbrook and the end of the american century. the unwinding, 30 years of american decline which won a national book award. and blood of the liberals. he is the author ten also the play and editor of the two volume edition of the essays of george orwell. please join me in welcoming our special guests. >> welcome, everybody, there's a couple hundred of you which is fantastic. it is a privilege and the pleasure to talk to frederik logevall and get our heads up the present and out of the news for an hour and a half, the great refuge as we try to navigate the storm used years. i know you as the author of two essential book from the vietnam war. people who farted vietnam war served in vietnam when i ask what books i have to read on the war, and and and i know you as a vietnam expert. as an america expert and someone who shares a lot with me in american history and foreign policy. we talk about your completely engrossing, the word david kennedy used, new biography of jfk. welcome, fred, welcome to the audience. the first question is in