you ran statewide in indiana against richard murdoch. he was the person who upset lugger, handed a senate seat to the democrats that has since gone republican. you lost. >> it's hard for a democrat to win statewide in the best of years. i was running in the worst of years. i'm still proud of our campaign. i was largely doing it to stand up for auto workers. richard murdoch intervened to prevent the auto rescue. he took it to the supreme court using his standing as treasurer. it would have devastated our state. i think somebody needed to stand up to him. i got my head handed to me. >> what did you learn from this. you had a bunch of supporters that weren't ready to support you. what do you think your issue was, youth perhaps? >> i can say i led the ticket. although just about all of us were somewhere in the 40% range that year. just a horrible year to be a democrat in indiana or frankly in most places. what i really learned was campaigning. it was my first time on the ballot. it was uphill to say the least. not a lot of people were even f

wanted to get that project started for richard nixon in the mid '70s, tried to start another right wing tv network. and finally in 1996 with the money of murdochto do so. one thing i want to point out that rudy guiliani told me last week when i was reporting a piece, this tweetstorm, all of this madness you see, according to rudy, is actually designed, and i'm surprised he was honest about it, to throw sand in people's eyes about robert mueller that trump's voters don't know what to believe. >> right. >> so the media says trump is raging. but rudy says this is a calculated strategy to sow doubt and create confusion. >> you wrote a whole book about the construction of the constitution and the gaps that we all glaringly see. it wasn't built to withstand a silvio b silvio burlisconi. >> and wasn't also built to withstand the republican party we have today, which is lockstep behind trump on these questions. the founders, the people who wrote the constitution, assumed, of course, that people, whatever political party they were in, would be able to rise above that and transcend that if the evidence was such that it required them to do so. there is n