the first is with richard russell. richard was a democratic senator from georgia who was a friend and mentor to lbj. he realized in order to get the civil rights act of 1964 passed, he has to run over richard russell. he invites him to the oval office. they had the intense conversation. and russell says, you know, you have the legislative muster to get the civil right the act. i don't think jack kennedy had it. you do. i will warn you, if you do it, you'll lose the southern states to the republican party. and you may way lose the election of 1964. and johnson, the great creature of power, hears this and quietly replies, if that's the price for good will, i will gladly pay. a just tremendous political courage. while we think of johnson, we think about the means of lyndon johnson, all his had powers and persuasion, how he hoarded pow and how he craved. we don't think about the end how he expended liberal. it was things like that transformed the country. the other story. in order to get the civil rights act passed he had t

and he realized in order to get the civil rights act of 1964 passed he has to run over richard russell. and he invites into the oval office and yet this very testy conversation. and russell says, you know, you have the legislative muster to get the civil rights act passed. i don't think jack kennedy had it but you have it. i'll warn you, if you do it, you will lose the southern states to the republican party, and you may well lose the election. and johnson, this great creature of power, hears this and quietly replies, if that's the price for this bill, i will gladly pay it. gives tremendous political courage. while i think we think of johnson, we think about the meaning of lyndon johnson, all his powers and persuasion, how he ordered power and crazy. but we don't think about the end, how he expanded the political capital that he garnered. and it was on things like that that transformed this country. the other story relating to this is in order to get the civil rights act passed, he had to engender a relationship with the republicans but he had to get them over to his side. there's a co

he met with richard russell immediately upon taking office and said, russell, i'm going to run over you. kennedy never said that. so i would give johnson credit, not for an additional commitment, because i don't know that his commitment was any greater than the kennedys, but i think for having the legislative acumen to get the thing passed. and it was really, really hard to get the thing passed. five months of debate to get it through. and nothing else was going to be considered while this thing was being considered. and johnson did it. >> i think -- >> roger, if i may. we're at the end. and i want charlayne hunter-gault's voice to be the last on this. i want you to answer the question from the audience. this person writes, i read your book many years ago and was moved by your story. how did what happened to you shape your decision in years to come and shape your career? >> it's all in this book. [ laughter ] but on lyndon johnson, i will say -- no, it shaped me -- i couldn't be an activist as a journalist, but i could be a passionate reporter for the things that i was seeing, and at th

now, she was in the richard russell library because i'm going in great detail into johnson as majority leader. richard brevard russell of georgia was the great southern patriarch and leader, you know, of the southerners in the senate, and i wanted to know all about his relations with lyndon johnson. so ina went down to the russell library and the truman library, same thing. you know, we've gone through the papers of many senators of that period. earl clements' papers, for example, are in lexington, kentucky. tom clark's papers are out in the truman library, roosevelt library. we've spent, between the two of us, really endless months in different libraries. it's not just the johnson library, that you do the work. c-span: do you think that lyndon johnson would be as anxious as he was to have a library if he knew that a lot of the material that is in that library would end up in a book like this? what do you think he would react, what would be is reaction to this book? >> guest: lyndon johnson, as we saw as president, did not take kindly to criticism. however, when he reads all four books

he met with richard russell. upon taking office and said russell i'm going to run over that. he never said that. so, i would give johnson credit not for the additional commitment. but i think for having the thing passed and it was really, really hard to get the thing passed. five months of debate to get it through. nothing else was going to be considered and he did it. >> well, if i may, we are at the end and i want charlene hunter's voice to be the last one. how did what happened to you shape your decision in years to come and your career? >> it is all in this book. but i will say, it has shaped me, i couldn't be an activist as a journalist but i could be a reporter for the things that i was seeing and black people were being portrayed in, inaccurate way ways. on linden johnson in my book, it is written for young readers, it is for you to understand everything that we have been talking about. it is in terms that you can understand and the speech is a wonderful piece when he passed the civil rights act. i would encourage you to read it because you will get a sense of the hear

richard russell is noting the dow transports failed to make a new high where the dow industrials did. breaking down in those sorts of things. and i think it's time to go to the sidelines. we saw the s&p rally 50 or 60 points and got back up to resistance. i want to go to the side. >> you are talking about the dow theory philosophy, right? with the transports. >> yes, right. >> so you are saying nothing fundamentally has changed in your philosophy over the past week, it is a pure technical move. so i notice you still have 10% exposure in your fund to the s&p. so if you're a little bit in stocks, where are you within stocks? >> well, i'm not allowed actually to talk about particulars because the sec frowns upon it, but if i have to own anything, if you want to buy particulars, coal looks awfully cheap. and shipping stocks look awfully cheap. otherwise go to take a look at buying the high yielders, the old names, the johnson & johnsons, that sort of thing. the ges that pay wonderful 4% to 5% dividends. if you have to own something and you have to take a punt, buy coal, buy shippers and b

. >> rose: people like richard russell. >> yes. hairy byrd. >> rose: john stennis from mississippi. and all those people now he had to say to them we're going to take forward a civil rights program. >> yes, and it's something to watch the newsreels. they're all sitting in a row watching this speech. this is the man they raised to power and he.... >> rose: and he was younger than all of them. >> yes. >> rose: johnson knew that bypassing the civil rights bill that... what did he say about the future of the democratic party in the south? >> well, he said with the second bill... he said with the first bill, you're right, he said "we're turning the south back to the republican party for 40 years. >> rose: and he was right. >> yes. yes, he was. >> rose: how do you decide when to end it? this volume? >> well, you know, the last lines of this book really say that johnson had had all these things that made people dislike him, his rages, his bullying. but he knew he couldn't do this in this crisis and he had kept these instincts under control, vanished, for seven weeks and i said he had done

richard russell of georgia is the senior tactician for the southern senators. they're not very happy about a civil rights bill, but, from many people's perspective, they thought something was going to be enacted and they best try to make it as least harmful to the south as possible. went through a lot of negotiating; the bill went back and forth. senator thurmond was particularly concerned about the jury trial provisions and whether somebody would be entitled to a jury trial if he were found liable of violating someone's civil rights. he did not like the compromise that had been worked out back and forth with the house and senate and, in fact, he had said to russell he wanted to call a meeting of the southern caucus and he wanted a unified effort against it. russell did not want to do that. so senator thurmond quietly -- on his own he told russell that he was going to have to oppose it and decided that he would. he had not said very much to his aides, but harry dent, who would later go on to be the very senior aide to richard nixon in the white house, said that