joining me now is richard thaler. sold 2 million copies, and on tuesday its so-called final edition comes out. richard, welcome. this is, it seems to me, a case study that should be in the final edition of the book which people say -- >> there will be no post-final edition. >> peyou can't shove people,you can't mandate it, so how do you increase the incentives? they haven't worked. how would you nudge people to get the vaccine? >> i think it's very useful to think back of our experience in dealing with smoking and see what happened. so if you go back to the 1960s, when it first became clear that smoking led to lung cancer and other kinds of cancer, we started with information campaigns, nudges. we added warning labels. gradually we started adding other incentives like taxing the cigarettes and making it difficult to smoke. you weren't allowed to smoke in your office or at a restaurant or in an airplane. i think we're seeing the same thing with vaccines. so lots of places are starting to announce mandates, but they're

then richard thaler on how to nudge the vaccine hesitant, to go ahead and get the shots