tom baric had rick gates open an office in d.c. for baric's firm. so this was seen as something that was not so easy to ignore by each folks around trump who thought better of having rick gates with this looming cloud of scandal hanging over him around the white house and the administration. >> and rick gates, not a household name the way some of these other characters are. but he's now working for bob mueller, on team america telling bob mueller and investigators everything they want to know about the trump campaign. any concern about the amount of time rick gates lasted after manafort was off the scene? he was in and out of this white house long after donald trump was inaugurated. he was in and around some key people in places who were also of interest to robert mueller. is there anything about those intersections between gates and folks in the white house and the folks that you write about today that creates more anxiety for people now that he's a cooperating witness in the mueller probe? >> yeah, absolutely. and you raise a valid point. manafort

rick gates had enough on his own about the way this campaign was run. >> this is why mueller's team betterinst gates, it may hurt him for other uses of gates down the road. thank you, guys. what a day. facebook attacks, manafort on trial, and suddenly conspiracy's not a crime. by the way, nothing with a side of fries. fact is, every insurance company hopes you drive safely. but allstate actually helps you drive safely... with drivewise. it lets you know when you go too fast... ...and brake too hard. with feedback to help you drive safer. giving you the power to actually lower your cost. unfortunately, it can't do anything about that. now that you know the truth... are you in good hands? the nation's largest senior-living referral service. for the past five years, i've spoken with hundreds of families and visited senior-care communities around the country. and i've got to tell you, today's senior-living communities are better than ever. these days, there are amazing amenities, like movie theaters, exercise rooms and swimming pools, public cafes, bars, and bistros, even pet-care services. an

so blame it on rick gates. he was the one who was closely managing these business affairs and blame it on the ukrainian oligarchs who demanded that paul manafort set up these private secret bank accounts in cypress in the st. vincent and the grenadines in order for him to be paid by the ukrainian ole gashes. that's the defense in a nutshell. it's kind of an unusual defense. >> yeah. >> they also say that -- they also say that paul manafort met with the fbi in 2014 and he described these offshore bank accounts. he identified them and he also described that he had gotten paid $27 million in doing business with ukrainians. so we had the first witness already here because this is what's known as a rocket docket here in alexandria, virginia. we had the first witness. we expect in the last couple of days we will hear about the accountants and more details about the bank accounts. >> thank you evan. it's all pretty fascinating as evan says he says he me with the fbi is detailed $27 million that he was paid. the govern

so now manafort's attorneys have rick gates' prior statements, all of his interview with mueller and the team. what sticks out to me is that gates was at that meeting and it would not surprise me, this is pure conjecture and there may be limitations on whether manafort's lawyers can disclose this. but it wouldn't surprise me at all if rudolph giuliani learned from manafort's lawyers a little bit about what rick gates is going to say about collusion. and they're now trying to get out in front of this by not denying there is collusion but by saying it is not a crime. >> that is a fascinating theory that would plane is the chain of potential information. given what he is charged with, why would the trump tower meeting come up at all? >> it will likely not come up at the trial. because of the federal statutes that require the government to disclose all of his prior statements, they can know used on cross-examination to impeach him, manafort's lawyers will have known about it. so don't expect i in the trial that's coming but in potential back channels, giuliani could learn, and he was not

the report looks at two men who paid tens of thousands of dollars each to former campaign aid rick gates to the trump administration. gates emerged as a key figure in robert mueller's investigation after cooperating and pleading guilty of charges lying to the fbi and conspiracy against the united states earlier this year. >> ken vogel wrote that story, he joins me now. >> rick gates got $300,000 combined for information on this administration. that's a lot of money, ken. >> yeah, it is. what's notable is that not necessarily you have close associates of the president who finds themselves in high demand at the beginning of the presidency when people are trying toto navigate. rick gates at this time is already under scrutiny from mueller. a whiff of scandal would be enough to urge the president and keep the president and his allies from letting someone like that hang around, let alone inside the white house. here you had no such concerns and in fact that kind of raises questions about maybe these donors are trying to essentially subsidize rick gates so that he may be more incline to try to

then the star witness. >> one person, rick gates. >> rick gates. >> why all of trump world is worried

we can talk about rick gates. the jury going to disbelieve everything, and he'll, you know -- if the jury says, you know what, you're not guilty of 17 things, but you did one thing, you've got a big problem. so, when you look at rick gates, rick gates is a person who can tell you, you know what, what was done, when it was done, and how it was done. and so, right there i think you have problems. and then you add to that other witnesses on the list that are talking about his dealings in ukraine, about how they dealt with banks, about people that he purchased goods from and the luxury lifestyle he led and taxes that were not reported and jurists will start to think, hmm, it's a really nice way to live, i don't live that way, problems in paradise, guilty. so, i think he faces many problems. certainly innocent until proven guilty. we live in a system of due process. a jury will make those conclusions. but as a person who tries federal cases, they're very difficult to overcome based upon documentary evidence and strengt

rick gates was part of the campaign for much longer than manafort was, through the election, even up to the inauguration. we may get a glimpse into some of what rick gates has told the mueller team more than what comes out as far as the charges in this trial. i'm keeping an eye on that. >> and glen, this -- it's all just starting today. could manafort, as it is starting, but -- is there time for him to cut a deal with bob mueller? how does this work? >> you know, i think there's still time for him to plead guilty. i was a federal prosecutor for 30 years. i had defendants plead guilty the day of trial, after opening statements and midway through the trial when the defendant saw there was a mountain of evidence. it's a different question whether he can still cut a deal with robert mueller. i actually think if robert mueller really wanted or needed manafort's testimony to continue to build his case, i think we would have seen a deal cut some time ago. can he still plead guilty? yes. is mueller likely to extend him a plea offer? almost certainly the answer is no. >> an interesting take o

they called him the star witness and they called out the government for barely mentioning rick gates in their opening. rick gates obviously also served on the trump campaign, as a matter of fact he stayed the trump campaign even after paul manafort was fired from the campaign. one of the things we won't hear in court and we've talked about it a little bit is we won't hear much about president trump. the prosecute are tore ors and l try to make it only about the financial instruments, the taxes and bank accounts that according to the government paul manafort was lying about. they want to make sure that russia and the collusion question never enter into this trial. the jury is now right at this moment hearing from the first witness. this is a court that moves very quickly as you mentioned. tadd devine a democratic strategy is testifying for prosecutors. we expect that the defense will also raise questions to tadd devine essentially showing that paul manafort worked for not only republicans, he also worked with democrats that really he was working when he was working overseas, it was a

his right hand man, rick gates, is already cooperating with the special counsel after pleading guilty to his own set of charges brought by the special counsel. carolyn, manafort connecting the dots here to what we know and what we don't know yet. how do you see the next three weeks unfolding? >> quite frankly, this may be a bit of a snooze fest. this is a documents case. it's a tax fraud case. >> lots of document, lots of info. >> i think there will be some highlights which as you indicated, rick gates, all eyes will be on him. he was the right hand man to manafort. what he'll have to do in order to fulfill his cooperation agreement, for the government to file that sentencing letter to his judge to say give him a below guideline sentence is provi provide information for the prosecution. there are no leaks coming out of special counsel ice offic's off. we don't know what gates will say and it could blow this thing wild open. >> here is what he had to say. >> when you're a prosecutor, we used to say all the time, if you're going to try to kill the king, make sure he's dead. the fact is,

his former co-defendant and deputy rick gates has already pleaded guilty and is cooperating. and in a bold move, manafort's team told the jury his defense will resolve around discredited gates who is expected to be called as one of the government's 35 witnesses. defense attorney thomas zenly claims it was gates who stole money and lied and embezzled millions from manafort. he said it was gates who had his hand in the cookie jar. this trial is a key test for special counsel robert mueller. judge t.s. ellis has banned any mention of president trump, russia, or collusion, but the case still looms over the wouns since the charges against manafort stem from the special counsel's investigation into possible collusion between the trump campaign and russia. the white house now trying to downplay the trial and manafort's role on the trump campaign, even though manafort was the campair chairman for three months. >> this trial obviously centers on matters that have nothing to do with the campaign. i think even mr. manafort, as i read it, had requested there be no mention of his brief ten

equally possible that they don't. >> would you expect manafort to blame this on his former number two rick gatesgetting word that that might be part of the defense strategy, blaming this on gates. >> yeah, i mean typically when you have a cooperating witness who like rick gates in this case was part of the scheme, was charged in the original criminal document, criminal charge, that is the obvious person who you blame because you want to divert blame from yourself. so it is sort of defense argument 101. and in this particular case, the uphill battle, i don't know how uphill it is, for the government is that one of the particular crimes to which gates has pled guilty is lying to the fbi. and not just lying to the fbi, but lying to the fbi in the course of an interview -- in the course of a promeeting in which was trying to convince the fbi specifically that he was being truthful to try to get a deal. so the argument that you see time and time again in court, sometimes it works, most of the time it doesn't, if you have good corroborating evidence of the testimony of this previously lying witness, s

. >> rick gates has turned against him, right? former business partner. and it appeared that the difference for men a fort was going right after rick gates. >> they are saying that man a fort didn't intend to break the law. if he did violate tax laws he did it without knowledge or understanding, but he trusted guys like rick gates and rick gates, the defense will say, is lying to you, the jurors because he has everything to gain to avoid prison. >> bill: charlie? barack obama in 2010 lost 63 house seats in his mid term. right now you've got an advantage about two dozen, about 23 seats. this is a part of it. a pretty good raced on there but tampa it looks like the democrat has a pretty firm lead. looks like you can win his district. one of these direct districts that could be switched yet again, but ron desantis coming out today really from the tweets a couple weeks ago seems to have taken an edge over adam putnam in this race for florida. >> as he was saying earlier, it is donald trump's party at this point. there are all vestiges tugging him in the wrong

and there is a peril we will rick gates before he flipped. you might remember that rick gates and paul manafort, they were initially charged together on a whole bunch of felonies. like paul manafort, rick gates initially started off fighting the charges. pled not guilty right out of the gate. a few weeks into it, after they started a whole new round of charges, gates changed his mind. he dump his legal team. instead he signed and he himself was a former federal prosecutor in d.c. where gates is being charged. flynn dropping his joint defense agreement was the big red flag that he was about to flip. with gates it was that change of lawyer. that was the sign that he was about to flip. he brought a new legal team on board and that was the warning that he would stop fighting the charges against him and instead would plead guilty and cooperate. and it all happened pretty fast with gates. on january, we have the first report that gates was getting this new lawyer. exactly one month later on february 23rd, there's flynn pleading guilty and flipping.

we should expect to see and hear testimony from rick gates. key to this.e know he's already take an plea deal with mueller and was so close to paul manafort during the decade working in the ukraine. he could be that smoking gun and provide that testimony that ties manafort to the charges that have been brought against him. >> how nervous potentially should manafort be particularly for gates' testimony? >> this is a really stunning trial. the fact that manafort has not already entered into some kind of plea deal with the government is shocking, because the evidence against him is so persuasive and compelling. we should expect that paul manafort's team are going to go after rick gates if he testifies, go after him hard and say this guy has lied to accountants, lied to lawyers. lied to the treasury department. and even to fbi agents. so why should you believe him now? so we should expect a very, a rigorous cross-examination of rick gates if he takes the stand to testify against paul manafort. >> what does it say to you that manafort hasn't cut a deal yet? i m

partner, everything manafort knows rick gates knows, and rick gates has been cooperating apparently ady with the prosecution for several months. so gates would know a lot about any potential collusion and this directly intersects with the news of the day about there being potentially a second premeeting for the russia trump tower meeting. rick gates is one of the names that rudy guilliani slipped and revealed in the series of interviews yesterday. >> what is the significance of paul manafort dropping his case against robert mueller. he was trying to have this case dismissed in court, saying that robert mueller's jurisdiction did not extend to what he is actually charging paul manafort with? as i understand, he dropped those charges yesterday. >> it just seems he is increasingly finding himself to be more cornered and he doesn't have a lot of options to fight back at this point, and this is all getting back to that original goal of trying to squeeze manafort and get as. information as possible out of him as they move closer hopefully to doing an interview of the president himself. tha

rick gates and papadopoulos. paul manafort, i was with paul manafort backstage at the rnc because he ran your -- he ran your convention. he was your campaign manager. this isn't somebody who was just incidental. >> and the crimes he's accused of -- >> let him finish. >> papadopoulos pled guilty. let me just give you facts because you're in hyperbole land. you have 13 russian nationals who have been charged with hacking our elections. so you can say what you want to say, but these are all facts. this is a real investigation with real serious consequences. >> we've got to take a break. we'll have more with steve and rich and everybody. we'll pick up the conversation, talk more about the president's new attacks on special counsel mueller. >>> later, a live report on progress on the fire lines in california as crews work around the clock under some of the worst conditions imaginable. the pictures incredible. we'll be right back. can weather any weather. behr premium semi-transparent stain and sealer, overall #1 rated

rick gates was the money guy. rick gates was in of this.of all paul manafort was too busy running a politicampl gn in ukraine, and he couldn't care about the details gog on back here. that seems to be the contours of the argument as they go forward. >> yang: and we've already had our first witness. the prosecution witness, bernie sanders chief strategist in 2016, what is hisonnection to this case? >> that's right, ted devine is one of these guys that's beonen politicalltant for 25 years in washington. he's well-known for making terrific tv ads, political a for different campaigns. red manafort, when he was hi in ukraine to work for viktor yanukovich, asd devine to come over and to run ads and write some speeches and to help do polling and try to help cra yanukovych's message. today from what we got in the hour or so eofmination with the prosecution interrogated devine, they sically were trying to set up who was the boss,ing what kind of work you did, who controlled the money, what kind of work did you really do. i

as we know rick gates is now cooperating with the special counsel team. it appears that the manafort team got the new documents just recently and they had asked a judge for more time. we're told that perhaps that these documents were sitting in another attorney's office and that's how the manafort team came into contact with us and now that they have it, they need more time to review it. they said there was good reason on both sides to delay the start of the trial. the judge was hoping to get jury selection underway on wednesday. when you think about this from the time this arrest happened to now, just the speed at which the judge wanted to get this trial going was pretty remarkable. this judge is known as someone who wants to move things along. they call it the rocket docket. now there's a delay. this will give the attorneys for paul manafort more time to review the evidence that they have now in their hands as it relates to hick gate -- rick gates. we're waiting for the names of some 30 witnesses the prosecution says they're going to call to the stand.

also on the list, rick gates' former lawyer. want to bring in legal analyst shamu to talk about this. >> good morning. >> nice to see you as well. what do witness lists tell us about what to expect? >> they tell us about what kind of testimony based on what a witness' background is and position is, it tems lls us wha approach the prosecutor will take. you look at the kind of witnesses put forth. >> what do these particular witnesses have insight to? there seems to be a theme. >> i should say anything i say here is not testimony. i used to represent mr. gates. looking at the witnesses, you can tell they're day-to-day operational people for the most part. those kinds of witnesses are very much crucial to showing exactly how the transactions worked. for the productisecution there' lot of transactions, they need to put on day to day people to show how the operation worked, to show how the transactions occurred. >> so this kind of detail, you pointed out this is a very complicated case, this would indicate then you're not going to ha

and as we know rick gates has been cooperating with the special counsel. he's expected to be a big witness here once the trial gets under way which was supposed to start on wednesday and now delayed to july 31st for jury selection. the defense saying that they had received some new information, new documents from an ipad, other electronic devices that belonged to rick gates that they needed more time to review. and court right now, wolf, still in session. the attorneys are up there arguing other motions, other things they had been seeking. the judge also ruled today that neither the prosecution nor the defense can ask jurors who they voted for, what party they're affiliated with in the presidential election. >> shimon prokupecz outside the federal courthouse in virginia, thank you. >>> joining us is democratic congressman jerry connelly of virginia. congressman, thanks so much for joining us. >> great to be with you, wolf. >> let's begin with your reaction to the breaking news, the white house said president trump is considering revoking a security clearan

we will hear the witnesses in the manafort case including rick gates. you can see the panic setting in. the big tell is when they lashed out at the mueller team. this is right -- >> it's personal. >> it's personal and nothing new. when everything is coming up against you try to put the prosecution on trial. i have had it done to me. everyone who has been a prosecutor has had it done to them. when you see the president lash out at mueller and the team, know that that is coming, i believe that is coming from a point of weakness and panic. when people panic they start self-defeating. some of the things that rudy giuliani sort of unexpectedly said today and walked back are really problematic for the president. >> anita, you are the closest to this. the view up here in new york, as you have heard, is that it was a day of confusion at minimum. is anyone of the view that it is helpf helpful? >> maybe the president. if the president didn't think that rudy giuliani was the right guy to be out there he probably wouldn't be out there. what you all said before is e

i took note this giuliani placed rick gates at those meetings. his name came up in the conversation. why is that important? because rick gates is already a cooperating witness with the mueller investigation. he pled guilty to charges in early february. if he can corroborate what cohen says you have two people against the multiple denials that team trump is giving, that is a huge problem for don jr. >> when i see a problem, i mean the way giuliani framed this today. i have tremendous admiration. i think he was the best mayor in american history. >> do you think's doing his client any favors? >> i don't know what he's doing. he had me thoroughly confused. when he was talking about collusion, is it a crime or not, he was almost like a law professor. but that's not where we are in the realm of theoretical law. this is about a political kangaroo court that the swamp is operating, and we need to approach it and fight it like a political fight. a political cage match. this isn't about criminal law. to me, he confused the issue there, and we need to cont

it's going to be the first time that we hear from rick gates. the other thing, there is going to be some interesting color at this trial. we're going to hear about the lavish lifestyle that paul manafort led making all this money from the ukrainian government, some $60 million, using that money to buy expensive cars and suits and some of the landscaping and property that he purchased with all that money. all of that is going to be brought up at the trial. but really, i think the big thing is going to be how all of this plays politically inside the white house. >> no question about it, shimon. thank you so much for that report. here with me at the table to share their reporting and insights, cnn's jeff zeleny, eliana johnson with politico, and mary katherine ham with the federalist. hi, everybody. happy tuesday. is it tuesday? >> it is tuesday. >> who knows anymore what day it is, what time it is. >> last day of july. >> oh, yeah. summer, slow down. let's focus on paul manafort. shimon was talking about some of the things we're going to see and h

special counsel robert mueller's star witness, manafort's former business partner, rick gates, who also served as the president's deputy campaign manager through the election. gates pleading guilty to conspiracy and making false statements in exchange for his testimony. manafort's lawyer today charging gates is "willing to say anything to save himself." because he "embezzled millions of dollars." >> anything to say, mr. manafort? >> reporter: manafort allegedly committed his crimes well before he joined the trump campaign. the case does not involve any allegations of colluding with russia to meddle in the election. but the case seems to have shaken president trump, especially after fbi agents raided manafort's home just before dawn last summer. >> i thought that was a very -- that's pretty tough stuff. to wake him up, perhaps his family was there, i think that's pretty tough stuff. >> reporter: the president now distancing himself from the man who once ran his campaign. >> paul manafort was replaced long before the election took place. he was only there for a short period of time. >> re

so you're going to have rick gates lay out exactly what they did to earn that money. >> rick gates, who is his deputy, who we know is cooperating with federal prosecutors. >> exactly. and then you've got to show that there were badges of fraud, that he deceived the government, that he hid the money, that he put in phony invoices, he created phony bank accounts and false names, that he did it through cyprus bank accounts and other offshore accounts in order to hide that money. so that's what this case is going to be about. and also in terms of the bank fraud showing that he lied about the value of various properties sew could get more money when he was really short on cash after the ukrainian government fell. >> paul, in terms of proving this case, i think you called it a paper case before. there should be records they have. in should be people close to him saying here's money moving from x to y and the irs never heard about it. it's fairly straightforward if it in fact happened. >> it is a very straightforward case. in that case the trial's going to be long and kind of boring. there's g

, specifically from the electronic devices used by rick gates. the deputy campaign chair for a while. he was the co-defendant. he has split off and he's pled guilty and he's cooperating with prosecutors. last week all the information that prosecutors got from the rick gates electronic devices was handed over to manafort's attorneys. shortly after receiving all of that information last week, manafort filed this request with the judge that manafort's trial should be delayed for a long time, for months. don't bring them up until november. now, i'm not a lawyer. but i think strategically, it is probably not wise to go to the judge in your case and say, oh, my god, we just saw what they've got on him. please can we put this off for a really long time. that is not the argument they made to the judge in manafort's case. instead last week paul manafort's lawyers made this request for a delay in his trial but they explained to the judge that the reason they needed the delay, the real problem they had was that paul manafort was unable to adequately prepare

rick gates is on this list. he was manafort's former business partner. he's now cooperating witness in the mueller probe. he's pleaded guilty and agreed to cooperate. it excludes manafort's son-in-law. some people thought he might end up on that list. he's been ensnared in all this. what do you make of the fact that this is a 35-person list of witnesses who can presumably testify to manafort's crimes? >> so, 35 names are all the people that the government might call as witnesses, they have to put them on the list that they want to. usually like it's pared down to who gets called. some will likely be custodians of records who testify briefly to authenticate documents. this is a document case about bank fraud and tax returns. the star witness here will no doubt be rick gates. i'm sure allies will be on him. it will be a packed courtroom when he testifies because he is the one who can kerkt the dots. once they get all those records into evidence, he can explain what the motives were and what makes this case criminal. >> matt miller, we didn't have the manaf

. >> it is important to know, rick gates, the right-hand man to paul manafort, is cooperating with the robert mueller investigation. rudy giuliani later said the meeting never happened and insists his description came from questions by reporters. >>> the former head of the human resources of fema accused of trading sex for jobs. the preliminary investigation finds cory coleman experienced relationships with female s subordinates. his name does not actually appear in the summary, but a source confirms he is the subject of the report. coleman resigned when they approved him for the interview. the allegations are deeply disturbing. cnn has been unable to reach coleman for comment. >>> broad changes in the court in california in how the government detains children in the migrant facilities. it is requiring the government to stop imposing conditions that delay releasing minors to parents or relatives. the judge said the government violated a 1997 settlement that dictates how refugee children are to be treated in the system. >>> progress is slow, but it is being made as crews battle the carr

. >> it is important to know, rick gates, the right-hand man to paul manafort, is cooperating with the robert mueller investigation. after requests for clarity, rudy giuliani later said the meeting never happened and insists his description came from questions by reporters. speaking overnight, giuliani appeared to blame the confusion on "the new york times" reporters who suggested he spin a potentially damaging story. >>> the former head of the human resources of fema accused of trading sex for jobs. cnn reviewed a summary of the preliminary investigation. finds cory coleman experienced relationships with female subordinates. he pressured the women and demoted them if they tried to deny him. the first accusation dates 2015. coleman resigned when approached for an interview. his name does not actually appear in the summary, but a source confirms he is the subject of the report. coleman resigned when they approved him for the interview. the allegations are deeply disturbing. cnn has been unable to reach coleman for comment. >>> a federal court in california ordering broad changes in how

among them former deputy rick gates who plead guilty to financial fraud and lying to investigators. also named is former chief strategist for bernie sanders 2016 presidential run, tad devine who helped manafort elect strong man viktor. 35 witnesses are set to testify. ken vogel, as we look at the layout, this is another instance where the president has rewritten history, essentially argued that manafort who was his campaign chairman, ran his national convention, was merely a peon who wasn't all that important, but he is in fact now on trial. and because he has taken to this point deciding not to plead, we're going to get a lot of information publicly. >> that's right. although the prosecutors will be walking a fine line here. there's already been some tension where the judge has seemed to come down on the side of the defense, suggesting that taking their side and their argument that the prosecution was using this to try to get into subjects like the trump campaign, like this alleged collusion with russia when, in fact, the charges that are actually at issue here relate to work that

reading, we all them the 302s, which is the fbi reports of what the witnesses are going to say, rick gates being one of them. so an educated guess might be that giuliani knows something's coming, and he's trying to get out ahead of it. >> we welcome you to the broadcast. thank you very much for joining us as we thank our two returning veterans, jonathan and anita, thanks, gang. appreciate it. >>> coming up for us on a monday night, we are, as we mentioned, mere hours away from the start of this first trial of the mueller overall investigation. we'll get you up to speed on all things manafort, about the case, how it could impact the president. >>> and later, what president trump said today that sounded a lot like something obama once said. the difference, when obama said it, republicans were outraged. "the 11th hour" just getting under way on a monday night. >>> just hours from now the first jury trial in robert mueller's russia investigation gets underway. jury selection in former trump campaign chairman paul manafort's federal financial fraud trial begins tomorrow morning in northern virg

look, it's easier, nicolle, when somebody pleads guilty and cooperates as rick gates did. but even if mr. manafort is convicted at trial, and i expect he will be, by the way, it is, as ken said, a very, very strong case. if he's convicted at trial, they can compel him to testify against others. they can immunize him, strip away his fifth amendment privilege, and even do it after an acquittal. so the government has a number of paths open to it, to compel manafort to testify if he doesn't change his mind and made guilty and cooperate. at this point, with opening statements being delivered in alexandria, he's going the long route and will not cooperate. but there are options available to the government. >> matt miller, one of the things that's been -- donald trump trotting out a new line on the question of collusion, that it is in and of itself not a crime. do you think it's a coincidence that the manafort trial is under way, that the cohen tapes have been seized, that they include recordings that cohen is talking about whether or not donald trump might have had some knowledg

. >> and rick gates has pled guilty. >> and he's cooperating. >> you say today you think it's more likely roger stone would be indicted? >> i think roger from the very beginning after i left the grand jury wish to nice to say roger was the subject, he was clearly a target. my question -- >> that was clear to you in the way you were being questioned? >> i said that to you before. >> but you said before you felt they were trying to set up a "perjury trap which has to do with statements roger would make. this doesn't look like perjury, this looks like laying out the predicate for the fact that roger stone was talking to military agents that said they were guccifer, they pretended they were not russian, they had a romanian cover story. do you think roger may have knowingly committed a crime as he went down that road? >> no. in terms of cooperating with the russians, i've talked about this publicly, i said i don't know why you're associating yourself with these people. our intelligence community says the russians did it and he said he didn't believe the russians hacked. >> do you think roger i

so, mark, why would the two men willing to pay so much money, $20,000 to $25,000 a month to rick gates>> well, they seem to want advice for how to navigate the new trump administration. they didn't seem to get a whole lot for their money. according to interviews and documents. but these payments at least from brady to gates continued right up to the point where gates was indicted by robert mueller in october. there was even an invoice for another $25,000 after he was indicted although brady's people say that that was not paid. so it's a lot of money for sort of influence and advice in this very new era in washington. sort of a microcosm of the lobbying in the early days of trump administration. >> gates is cooperating with the special counsel mueller's russia investigation. how do these other two men fit into the broader picture? >> well, it's unclear whether robert mueller is looking at these other issues, for instance, lobbying, that broidy is pulled into. but gates and -- sorry, barrack and broidy are associates of donald trump and paying gates is interesting and bears more reportin

the former partner of paul manafort, rick gates, could testify. the trial could last up to three weeks. at the end of the day, though, a big deal for paul manafort himself, who was a huge power broker in washington, d.c. he has another trial scheduled later this year, wolf. >> and they're accusing him of taking about $60 million from pro-russian politicians in ukraine. a significant sum of money. some of that money laundered through cyprus and elsewhere. joe johns, we'll get back to you. i know any moment they should have that jury in place. we're also learning new information about right about the white house chief of staff john kelly, questions about whether he'll stay or go. they've been swirling now for months. today kelly gave his staff an answer. let's go to our white house correspondent kaitlan collins. what is general kelly saying? >> reporter: wolf, quite a stunning turn of events here at the white house with chief of staff john kelly telling his senior staff in a meeting here in the west wing yesterday that president trump has asked him

rick gates, president trump's deputy campaign chairman, he pleaded -- >> the chair would instruct the individual from holding signs up that that is an inappropriate thing to do. >> is there a rule to that, mr. chairman? >> mr. chairman -- >> these people pleaded guilty. >> are there any rules against what they are doing? cite the rule, cite the rule if there's a rule against what they are doing. cite the rule. >> the gentleman may proceed. >> thank you very much, mr. chairman. let me underscore, these are not allegations, these are admissions. president trump's top national security adviser admitted and he committed these crimes and he is now cooperating with the special counsel. rick gates, president trump's deputy campaign chairman, he pleaded guilty to, quote, conspiracy against the united states of america, end of quote to intentionally engaging in a variety of criminal schemes and to lying to the special counsel and the fbi last year and even this year. he admitted to committing those crimes. he is also cooperating with the special counsel. george papadopoulos, president trump's

there's been no sign that he's been willing to cut the kind of deal that rick gates, his deputy, did. >> reporter: no, i think there are two questions about that, andrea. given that rick gates has agreed to testify against mueller and cooperate with the government, and given that he was so closely associated with manafort, what more does manafort have to tell them that gates already hasn't? that's one question they'll have to think about. the second question is, if he is convicted in both cases, mueller would have more leverage to force him to testify if indeed mueller still wants to do that. >> our thanks to chrystele welker, pete williams, and mimi rocah for kicking us off today. >>> coming up, promises, promises. new signs north korea is backing down on its vow to denuclearize. i'll talk to former cia chief john brennan next. >>> i just want to congratulate you, along with mika, on an extraordinary 40 years, bringing the world to all of us, first as big fans of yours, watching on tv, and now as two people who are very, very honored to be able to call you our friend and co-worker. >

rick gates is going to be key here. worked with paul manafort for a very long time. so there's a lot more that we don't, that may be fine but i don't know if he just worked with him on the stuff and he was in the room when don jr. was saying i got an email from a kremlin lawyer. >> lawrence: i think that's speculation and americans are getting tired of it. >> harris: president trump is warning lawmakers again that he is willing to shut down the government if lawmakers want step up for funding with the wall and border security so will it shutdown happen and how the fight affect the midterms? plus controversy across the country as some mayors are siding with apologize protesters over law enforcement. whether that is a good move or if they will face backlash, we debate. high protein to help get us moving. and help you feel more strength & energy in just 2 weeks. i'll take that. ensure high protein, with 16 grams of protein and 4 grams of sugar. ensure® tap one little bumper and up go your rates. with 16 grams of protein and 4 grams of sugar. what good is your insurance

. >> and rick gates has pled guilty. >> and he's cooperating. >> and he's cooperating. >> you say today, you think it's more likely that roger stone will be indicted? >> i think roger, as i said, after i left the grand jury, roger was -- it would be nice to say that he was a subject. he was clearly a target. my question -- >> that was clear to you in the way that you were being questioned? >> yeah, i've said that to you before. >> you said at the time, though, you felt like it was like they were trying to set up a perjury trap, which has dealt with statements roger made. this doesn't look like perjury, sam. this looks like laying out the predicate for the fact that roger stone was talking to the russian military agents who were claimi ining to be -- they had romaine can cover story and roger backed that up, too. >> i think -- well, in terms of cooperating with the russians, i had this argument with him, i've talked about this publicly, i said to him, i don't know why you are associating yourself with these people so publicly. our intelligence community said that the russians did it and

they're trying to go through more than 100,000 pages of documents. >> rick gates, we have to remind theience is cooperating. all right, i have to bring in midwin charles. talk about the significance of the judge naming five potential witnesses in manafort's bank fraud and tax crime case. >> i think it's significant because what happens is we now know there are five people who are intimately connected with manafort's dealings and who can provide additional evidence and perhaps firsthand evidence and that's one of the reasons why i think this is one of the most significant things the judge has done to date. >> two of them on that list, conner o'brien and cindy laporta, worked on manafort's tax returns. what can we expect? >> we can expect to get those details. i think that, you know, talking about tax returns, we all want to know what's on trump's tax returns. we're now possibly going to know what's going on with manafort's tax returns. one of the many charges is tax evasion. so whether or not the prosecutors can prove whether or not he evaded taxes. how long has the evasion gone on. thes

. >> rick gates. >> rick gates, and so, i mean, at some point it's going to have to don on him, thisinning strategy that he has. i think it's a very tough case for him to win. >> the reason i wanted to have you on is, you wrote a letter to secretary of homeland security, kirstjen nielsen, about the separation policy the administration put in place. you resigned from the homeland security advisory council. as i gather, this is a group of professionals mostly, who were meeting with the secretary, advising the secretary on things she could do. this is a rather new thing, as is the department itself. why did you decide to tender your resignation? >> well, the advisory council does some very important work with the homeland security department. for example, when i was there it did work on cybersecurity protection, it did work on home grown terrorism issues, it studied the issue of private prisons, so a variety of issues. outside professionals, people with long careers in government giving advice on subjects and giving fine reports. i resigned because when i first was on the council, i had

. >> rick gates. >> he had a meeting with him. who knows what they talked about with the e-mails. >> rick gates, of course, has pled guilty. >> and is cooperating. >> and is cooperating. you say today you think it's more likely that roger stone will be indicted? >> i think from the very beginning as i said after i left the grand jury, roger was, it would be nice to say he was a subject. he was clearly a target. my question -- >> that was clear to you in the way that you were being questioned? >> yes, i said that to you before. it was 100%. >> you said before it was like they were trying to set up a perjury trap, which hadz hs to with statements testifying. this does not look like perjury, sam. this looks like laying out the predicate for the fact that roger stone was talking to the russian military agent who were claiming to be and they went in and pretended they weren't russian. had a romanian cover story and roger backed that up, too. do you think roger may have knowingly committed a crime as he went down that road? >> i had thi

rick gates is already a cooperator. you match up those cooperators. you add in some e-mails.e-mail to don jr. where he says he loves it. and you get whatever else there is corroboratewise. these phone calls to a blocked number. and mr. trump just days before the meeting saying something big's coming down the pooiike. three days after that, giuliani assange goes public and says i've got tape. it doesn't take a rhode scholar to see maybe what happened was that the trump team and the russians decided to get this stuff out, knew they couldn't put their own fingerprints on it and released it through ric wikileaks. these are connecting the dots which aren't too tough to connect especially for someone like bob mueller. >> we have to leave it there. and now take you to california where thousands of firefighters at this moment are working around the clock to contain a massive wildfire. the carr fire which covered an area the side of the city of philadelphia has already killed six people and destroyed hundreds of homes in its path. nbc's steve patterson is there in redding, california.