rick pearlstein mentioned the rule that boehner broke that rule for the fiscal cliff. break that rule again knowing that it will only get a certain number of republican votes. that's a. and b, how many republican votes will it get it being a clean debt-limit raising bill attached to no cuts. we assume that democrats would vote for that. it would mean twenty-something or 30 republicans--would that many republicans--i know obama got 85 on the fiscal cliff deal. but this is going to be a tougher vote for republicans on the debt ceiling. will he get 25 or 30. >> john: alex we have 20 second left. let me ask you some republicans are talking about another government shutdown. do they not remember howed about that came across in 2011 not to say what newt gringrich did? are they getting desperate. >> well look some of these republicans want to send the white house a message, the message is they're serious about doing this. they'll tell you that their constituents want them to send a strong message to the white house. if they don't they could risk a primary in their own strict