institution that is conservative by its nature and coming from a place nobody had predicted. >> rick stengelhem up there. the new covers. gay marriage. >> beautiful, rick. >> thank you. >> kelly, thank you so much as well for joining us. >>> up next, holy thursday. father jim martin joins us in the studio to discuss how pope francis is breaking from tradition. you're watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. ♪ [ penélope ] i found the best cafe in the world. nespresso. where i never have to compromise on anything. ♪ where just one touch creates the perfect coffee. where every cappuccino and latte is only made with fresh milk. and where the staff is exceptionally friendly. ♪ nespresso. what else? ♪ if youthen this willbrids arbe a nice surprise. meet the 5-passenger ford c-max hybrid. c-max come. c-max go. c-max give a ride to everyone it knows. c max has more passenger volume than competitor prius v and we haven't even mentioned... c-max also gets better mpg. say hi to the super fuel efficient ford c-max hybrid. ♪ >>> holy thursday. there is a beautiful shot. look at that. holy thursday.

. >> rick stengel, we have the new issue of "time." let's unveil it. wes? >> new world pope. >> new world pope. as a lot of folks have been saying this morning, he's an insider and an outsider. he is from south america but of italian heritage and orthodox issues and he is an interesting choice. the citation of st. francis is something that appeals to a lot of people. he's on the side of the poor but, as you know from your own knowledge of the jesuits he is also citing francis xavier who was an evangelist in asia. >> that's good. jon meacham, you are not. but it is fascinating as you look at what this man has done in his own life. the choices he's made after becoming allegedly runner-up instead of staying inside the vatican as another argentinean cardinal did, he went back home and said that he would wither if he was not with his people. >> right. and he renounced living in the grand palace for cardinals in be buenos aires and he cooks for himself. the food i'm told in the vatican when guys -- it's so bad and forces them to try to get somebody quickly.

rick stengel joins me now. i want to talk about the "time" magazine cover out today.nd first about nelson mandala. you know him better than almost anyone in terms of a journalist and a biographer and a correspondent. tell me about mandala, what you know about his state of health and also just the legacy if we can start talking about the icon that he is. >> andrea, i don't know much more than you do probably about his condition right now. what i do know is how frail he has become. i saw him last year. i've seen him a few times in the last few years and he's a big, robust man and the last few years he's, he's just gotten very frail. he's very weak. and i think as you know also, he first got tuberculosis when he was a prisoner 40 years ago and he's also had problems with his lungs because of the lgcy of tb, and for him to have lung problems at 94 years old, is a bit dangerous. his legacy is assured, he saved his country from a civil war. he presented a model of reconciliation between the races in a way that we've almost never seen before in history. i think his iconic st

well, we have rick stengel, of course, coming in a little later. ead of doing the cover, we could find out what's going on in "time." >> i think rick would probably rather read the cover. >> i'm sure he would. the magazine has been troubled. the shareholder returns kind of guy has been trying to raise the stock price. tried to do a joint venture with meredith where they've combined these magazines with meredith. that fell apart with "time," "fortune," "sported illustrated" that didn't fit in. now they'll try and spin the whole thing off, kind of like what rupert's doing with his newspaper company. >> so first of all, what's rupert doing with his newspaper company? is rupert going to sell the "new york post"? >> no. i think rupert would, you know, sell his prized heirlooms before he sold the "new york post." he loves the "new york post." after the hacking thing and because you have a disparate set of assets in the company, he's taken his newspapers and educational publishing and spinning that off in a separate company this summer and keeping the ente