rick unger will be arguing with me before the end of the show. why do they accept the fact that this was predicated on a huge lie and they don't admit it? >> i think a lot of people are banking on helping obama create and protect his legacy. i think a lot of this, you remember the shut down. this was over defund obama care. they wouldn't budge. now look. look at this unravelling and look what they have been defending and protecting is a big epic failure. >> i am a liberal. i have no interest. with all due respect to protecting the president's legacy at all. what i have an interest in is doing right by the american people. i believe the president made a presumption people would not want just policy. >> you are putting words in his -- hang on a he could is. one at a time. you are putting words in the president's mouth. what part of do you like your plan you can keep your plan period. >> in all fairness -- (inaudible). he should have said the whole statement. if your current healthcare policy meets the new higher standard of healthcare in this count

steve forbes, rich karlgaard, sabrina schaefer, rick unger, steve. can we trust these folks? >>o. trying to reinstate the program now is a nightmare. it will not be more a few months. it will be several years in the future. this is a fix to get through the next election. it will be a big mess and it will get bigger. this is collapsing on its own. >> rick, how do you trust people who have broken so many promises? >> not a good week to be a defender of the house, is it? >> the reality is whether you can trust them or not, that is not the issue as the perception. right now, americans are not trusting the administration. in politics, however, things change. something will happen next. if they do the right thing and they handle it well, they will dig out of it. if they don't, he has a big problem. face it. >> he does. emac, specifically one promise that he made, when apparently he had information that contradicted that promise. july 2010, a report was out that 4 to 67% of individual policies would be canceled. i.r.s. report, obamacare report he had three-and-a-half years ago. since whe

transparency and entrepreneurs coming in, i think that even expensive oncology treatments, to rick unger's point, would drop a lot. >> sabrina, it's just the opposite in the public sector. the higher the prices become, right? >> right. and look, the government has been involved increasingly, both republicans and democrats, for over four decades with the health care system which is why we haven't been able to see some of the market proposals actually take place. but the fact is if you move this to the private sector, increase in choices and decrease in cost. tangible things can be done. move to a system where we encourage health savings accounts where question encourage the deregulation of the insurance market, encourage health status insurance. these are real things. we have to get rid of that tax subsidy for employer provided insurance. there's substantive changes that could have been made that would have moved things to the private sector in a productive way. >> john, just an overall economic point. the point is in the private sector there's accountability. if you screw up somebody can g

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