and so that was, you know, one example of the cunning nature of the thing and rick westin who may be here tonight, tj mentioned him a moment ago he began buying them on those domain and put them on a credit card which give us you a sense of how ad hoc this thing was to try to stop it. >> before we go farther down the path of the worm's evolution, i just wanted to get back to that question of, you know, what kind of straits they were in. a question for tj, i have a very old email address, and i have a filter in front of it. >> what's that? >> and since most malware is distributed by botnets and in the form of -- well, the level of spam is some rough correlation out there in the world at the level of malware infections. so i remember about a year ago a large botnet was taken down and for a while spam fell off. but i have to say that if i look historically at the number of spam messages it looks like 10 or 20% worse than it was before that happened. am i a good indicator of the state of -- >> it's a perspective situation, right? so the operation you're referring to is operation b103 the