brian riddil at the heritage foundation on october 6th, in "the washington times", did an op-ed that said that the estimates on the size of the deficits that i've just given you are likely to be wildly optimistic. by the way, when i said the debt triples from $5.8 trillion t to $17.3 trillion, i am not including -- and those numbers do not include health care. because it hadn't passed. that's not current law, they didn't count that in the numbers when they were scoring it up. so he notes that the president assumed that spending would only increase at the rate of inflation for nine years after 2010. after he concluded an 8% increase for spending in 2010. the president's deficit estimates also assume interest rates lower than those in the 1980's or 1990's. now once all the factors in mr. riddel's analysis is added up, he projects a total deficit for the next 10 years to b be $13 trillion, an unsustainable level, for sure, and well above what c.b.o. has scored. because he's projecting higher interest rates on the debt because so much money would be borrowed worldwide, how do you induce