host: rob willer on that and how long you have been working on this issue. guest: a lot of great points there. we have been working on this -- i have been working on fuller's asian related problems -- on polarization related problems for the better part of a decade. my research started around 2009 with research on political persuasion and how it would be possible to persuade people across r.g. partisan divide. that research was focused on the moral basis of political persuasion. in a nutshell we find in political psychology research that liberals and conservatives in the u.s. and around the world tend to have very different moral values, or substantially different moral values, but people overlook this when they make persuasive appeals intent to make persuasive appeals in terms of their own moral values, not the values of the people they are trying to persuade. if they articulate their appeals in terms of moral values of the other side from them their arguments often sound quite intended to be more persuasive. we find making the argument for same-sex marriag

rob willer on former president trump and the media environment right now? guest: thanks, josh. i agree that donald trump is in terms of influence and in terms of his behavior as the leading undemocratic politician in the u.s. today. it is interesting to think of donald trump as both cause and effect. there is no question donald trump has stoked unfounded skepticism about the 2020 election and that has been damaging to american elections, americans faith in elections which is lower than it has ever been, and a lot of that is misinformation that donald trump has propagated. it is also worthwhile to think of donald trump as an effect. there were forces of polarization that made it possible for donald trump to win the presidency. for a lot of republicans in 2016 because of the high levels of polarization, they did not view voting for a democrat or staying home and indirectly helping the democrat win the presidency as an option. in interviews on donald trump voters from 2016 show a lot of people did not like the way he tweeted or did not like a lot of his behavior and personal life

and rob willer discusses a study about partisan animosity and antidemocratic attitudes. as always we encourage your calls, texts and tweets. >> i believe my plan is responsible and fair. it focuses advancement on the middle class and families. it held both current and future borrowers. this builds on my effort to make college more affordable in the first place. host: that was president joe biden talking about canceling thousands of dollars of student debt yesterday. plenty of reactions from across capitol hill and around the country. this morning we want to hear from you. phone lines are split a bit differently. if you currently have student debt that number is (202) 748-8000. if you paid off student debt that number is (202) 748-8001. all others can call (202) 748-8002 and you can also send us a text at (202) 748-8003. if you do please include your name and where you are from. on social media http://twitter.com/cspanwj, and on facebook it is facebook.com/cspan. you can go ahead and start calling in now. go ahead and start calling in as we bring in eric kellerman. how do

study, professor and director of the polarization and social change lab at stanford university, rob willer how this study was conducted. what did you analyze, especially given that in the past year we've seen violence erupt? >> yeah. so, we were very interested in that problem of high levels of anti-democratic attitudes, partisan animosity and also some significant levels of support for political violence. so, we wanted to test as many ideas as we could. we tested 25 ideas in a massive survey experiment, sort of like a public opinion poll. and we got some really, i think, helpful insights, trying to build a tool box for intervening on these problems. >> right. what worked? >> yeah, tell us. >> you know, one of the best ideas that we tested was a video we showed people before asking them about their democratic attitudes that showed scenes of unrest and violence in the streets in countries that were dealing with democratic collapse before then showing footage from the capitol riot from just last year and drawing a sort of straight line through to show. we maybe are on the precipice of some s